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To be sick of personality disorder being used as an excuse for bad behaviour?

(310 Posts)
fluffydressinggown Sun 09-Nov-14 13:58:37

I see it all the time on here, people say their partner/friend/family member has behaved badly and someone comes along and says maybe it is a personality disorder.

Personality disorder does not necessarily make you a bad person or give you bad behaviour. Some people are just dicks. Not dicks with a mental health problem.

Jasonandyawegunorts Sun 09-Nov-14 14:30:50

Yes, "maybe he has Autism" springs up a lot too.

Husband beating his wife?
"maybe he has Autism"

Person hanging around a school taking photos?
"maybe he has Autism"

And so on.

Chippednailvarnish Sun 09-Nov-14 14:34:03

Completely agree, if someone can function as an independently living adult and only directs unreasonable and unacceptable behaviour towards one person, then its not a personality disorder.

SaucyJackOLantern Sun 09-Nov-14 14:37:51

YANBU.

A particular classic I saw the other day was that someone didn't have a "real" mental illness as defined by the DSM. They probably just had a personality disorder instead.

Note to all- if you wouldn't say it about someone with bipolar or anorexia, then don't say it about someone with a PD either. It's no different.

Nomama Sun 09-Nov-14 14:38:19

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Hoppinggreen Sun 09-Nov-14 14:38:50

Yup
Although the parents of SN kids will be along in a moment to give you a roasting I'm sure!!
A member of DH family may have mild SN ( not confirmed by medical professionals) and she has been allowed to behave horrendously while having other family members excuse her.
This person knows right from wrong but chooses to make bad decisions knowing someone else will sort it out as she " can't"
Before I get a roasting too i do not have a child with SN and I don't presume to know what it's like to have to deal with the difficulties it can bring - I'm talking about when it's the standard fall back excuse for any bad behaviour.

WorraLiberty Sun 09-Nov-14 14:38:55

Personality disorder does not necessarily make you a bad person or give you bad behaviour.Some people are just dicks. Not dicks with a mental health problem.

I don't think anyone is disputing that.

But when someone is describing someone's behaviour on a forum, to people who don't know that person from Adam, I suppose it will always be put forward as a suggestion.

I can't imagine it happening much in real life, if the person you're talking to, knows the person you're talking about.

Jasonandyawegunorts Sun 09-Nov-14 14:41:28

Hoppinggreen: Although the parents of SN kids will be along in a moment to give you a roasting I'm sure!!

Why don't we all poke a stick into the fire and provoke a group of people who are not here to defend themselves?

SaucyJackOLantern Sun 09-Nov-14 14:44:01

It's only gets put forward as a suggestion Worra because of people's ignorance as to what a personality disorder entails.

One or two of the rarer ones do include lack of empathy or psychopathic traits, but these are not standard. 99% of what gets spouted about PD on here is disablist bollocks.

Nomama Sun 09-Nov-14 14:47:45

Oh! I usually find it is NOT the parents but well meaning know-nothings that want to molly coddle a kid with SEN because they think they should be doing something to help!

Well they can - pretend the kid is normal! I know, those words are horrendous - but might be understood by the Try Hards. The whole 'ooh he has SEN and can't help his poor ickle self' Try Hard Brigade really annoy me. How is 'his poor ickle self' supposed to lead an independent life if well meaning strangers won't allow it?

I did say, joke or explode, didn't I?

WorraLiberty Sun 09-Nov-14 14:48:31

I haven't see anyone saying it's 'standard'.

And I don't understand how the people putting forward the suggestion, can be considered ignorant if you say "One or two of the rarer ones do include lack of empathy or psychopathic traits".

Just how are random strangers on the internet supposed to know whether the person in question, is part of the 'one or two rarer ones'?

That's my point, this is the internet and no-one here knows the person being spoken about, so I can see why it might be put forward as a suggestion.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 09-Nov-14 14:48:50

I totally agree. On here this week somebodies partner was basucally behaving like a cocklodger, op has said he might have ASD, not been diagnosed. As op had said that, many people were sympathetic towards op partner, than if he did not have ASD.

DownByTheRiverside Sun 09-Nov-14 14:50:37

'Hoppinggreen: Although the parents of SN kids will be along in a moment to give you a roasting I'm sure!!

Why don't we all poke a stick into the fire and provoke a group of people who are not here to defend themselves?'

We're always around. grin
I think you'll find a lot of objections from parents of children on the spectrum protesting about all the 'Oh, maybe he's got Asperger's' suggestions when a poster is complaining about her partner.
Because he's cold and selfish and indifferent and <sniff> uncaringgggg.

'Maybe he's an arse and you are a doormat' has been my offering more than once.

Another reason why I have 'relationships' hidden.

But most of us living with various issues, disorders and diagnoses don't see them as an excuse. An explanation for behaviour, a key to unlocking strategies and support, yes.

GratefulHead Sun 09-Nov-14 14:52:22

I think it's difficult for parents of children with SN. My DS is autistic and has a range of autistic behaviours but in some situations this can seem like "bad behaviour". When he was younger he struggled massively with the sensory overload in supermarkets (lights, noises, smells). This frequently led to tantrums....but he wasn't making "bad choices", he literally couldn't help his behaviour.

My choice in the end was not to take him and yo get shopping delivered. Just because it appears a child is behaving badly it doesn't mean that they are.

StardustBikini Sun 09-Nov-14 14:56:48

I think there's a difference between using it as an "excuse" and using it to understand the behaviour.

As an example; A spouse with a personality or spectrum disorder may be insensitive, blunt and rude about a posters performance in bed - which badly upsets her and about which she posts. The usual cries of LTB are heard, because he's an insensitive, selfish prick, and then someone posts that "maybe he's autistic".

I don't read that as "excusing" the behaviour. I read it as a possible explaination. That it may not have been a deliberate attempt to upset, or hurt, the OP on the part of their spouse. That the spouse may not be aware that his words, or behaviour, will cause pain.

That's not to say that the OP shouldn't be upset - of course she will be. But if the OP is projecting motives for the behaviour onto the person who hurt her, then she could be magnifying her own pain.

Assuming that you have been emotionally hurt "deliberately" by someone you love causes more pain than being hurt inadvertently by them. I think it's important to understand which it is.

fluffydressinggown Sun 09-Nov-14 14:58:15

Oh I am offended because I have a diagnosis of a PD and yet manage to be pretty nice to my husband and don't go out of my way to hurt or abuse him.

Jasonandyawegunorts Sun 09-Nov-14 14:58:56

Oh I am offended because I have a diagnosis of a PD and yet manage to be pretty nice to my husband and don't go out of my way to hurt or abuse him.

The voice of reason.

Earlybird Sun 09-Nov-14 15:05:35

OP - completely agree.

But the excuse-making for bad behaviour here extends beyond personality disorder and also includes PMS/PMT(not responsible for moods) and being drunk (not responsible for comments/actions). There is little personal responsibility for anything - there is always a reason the bad behaviour is 'not really my fault'.

I sound like a grumpy old person! grin

StardustBikini Sun 09-Nov-14 15:11:40

There is little personal responsibility for anything - there is always a reason the bad behaviour is 'not really my fault'.

I read many posts differently. Saying "I fucked that up because I'm suffering from PMT" takes personal responsibility for the error, identifies the possible reason for it and is the first step in being able to avoid the same mistake again.

Andanotherthing123 Sun 09-Nov-14 15:14:54

I'm confused-personality disorder isn't SN or ASD is it? I thought it is separate and distinct? People love a good armchair diagnosis though don't they so threads on here are bound to attract that sort of speculation. It doesn't bother me as much as people saying things like 'sn is just as excuse for a badly behaved child' that is irritating IMO.

SaucyJackOLantern Sun 09-Nov-14 15:19:28

It's nothing to do with excuse making earlybird

It's that people are misunderstanding what personality disorders are in the first place, and then wrongly and offensively using them to label people who're behaving like cunts.

limitedperiodonly Sun 09-Nov-14 15:25:47

If you are on the receiving end of shitty behaviour, it doesn't make you feel any better to think the person can't help it. You just want them to stop.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Sun 09-Nov-14 15:26:42

Wtf hopping?

Why on earth would parents of children with SN be along to give the op a roasting, exactly? You are aware that literally nothing is less fun than reading armchair diagnoses putting almost every nasty behaviour known to humanity down to SNs?

OP, YANBU.

KeemaNaanAndCAMPAIGNOn Sun 09-Nov-14 15:31:11

I'm used to it - as soon as someone does something nasty then they must be wrong in the head and blah blah blah blah blah.

No, some people are just nasty fuckers and some people are utterly lovely folks with a mental health problem, like moi.

whitecandles Sun 09-Nov-14 15:34:51

I have a personality disorder, and have done a lot of dickish things in the past due to it. I lost boyfriends and friends over how I acted and they were right to ditch me. I was a fucking nightmare.

So whether or not the person has a PD or not is sort of beside the point. If someone's behaviour is hurting you, you don't have to put up with it. That person may have a REASON - but it is not an excuse.

It's hard really. On the one hand, in the midst of a bad episode, I really couldn't control myself. I used to say the most horrible things and as I was saying them, I said them in order to hurt people. But I felt like nothing I said would ever hurt anyone, because I was so insignificant. And I really had no other way of coping with how I felt inside, I felt like an animal. So I do think sometimes it isn't exactly the person's fault.

But I don't think it should be treated as an excuse. "Oh, she has BPD, she can't help it." Well, maybe not, but then I don't think you should be in a relationship with someone whose behaviour is consistently disrupting your life and making you feel bad. The kinder thing to do would be to leave that person. It sucks for them if they are suffering, but you have to look after yourself first.

Chippednailvarnish - "only directs unreasonable and unacceptable behaviour towards one person, then its not a personality disorder" - I actually disagree with that, because my personality disorder really only comes out in romantic relationships. I find it hard to be close to people in that way and I panic. In fact, for borderline, I think it's actually relatively common for people to appear pretty normal outwardly and then to unravel at home.

Personality disorders are complicated things and I would give anything to not have this. Anything.

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