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to not trust the unions or the government re public sector pensions

(136 Posts)
bonded Fri 31-Oct-14 08:16:55

With even more fire person and NHS strikes that affects us all I want to be informed on the subject. But I don't trust either of them.

Is there anywhere with a balanced view?

I don't want fire people working till they are 68 but at the same time an average earning fire person having a 400k pension pot doesn't sound affordable.

TartinaTiara Fri 31-Oct-14 08:38:55

I agree - both sides have an axe to grind and ignore or spin any facts that don't fit their story. I think the best thing to do for hard facts is to go to the Hutton report and look at that with an open mind - can't do links, but if you google "Hutton report on public sector pensions" you can get a copy. Its millions of pages long, though (speaking as one who read the lot when it came out, but was at least paid to do it).

Ledkr Fri 31-Oct-14 08:43:06

Well dh and I are public service and feel pretty stitched up tbh.
When we decided to pay into our pensions we were promised an early retirement but now we will be pretty old and are both considering pulling out and buying property instead.
We have years left and cannot trust the govt to not make more changes and our unions are also useless.
I feel worried as our jobs are extremely stressful and we work above and beyond normal work expectations and many of our colleagues have died shortly after retirement.

MaxPepsi Fri 31-Oct-14 08:53:24

DH is a fireman. He's about to be shafted. Signed on the dotted line with regards his pension, which he pays a massive chunk into every 4 weeks, and he's now been told tough shit!
Whilst he gets that money is fast running out and something needs to be done, making him work an additional 7 years with increased pension payments he will NOT get back is not bloody fair.
And to save money, the brigrade is now trying to sack people on a competency level so they don't have to pay any pension out at all. It's a no brainier that the older you get the less able you are to do the things a 20-30 year old can do.

bonded Fri 31-Oct-14 09:01:17

Tiara what was your view from reading it? And did either side fund you?

Pepsi, do you have any figures. What was promised? What will be given?

simontowers2 Fri 31-Oct-14 09:17:01

Tbf MaxPepsi, firemen do okay. 20k plus salary what is essentially basic manual work putting fires out and shifts which allow many of them to do other jobs self employed. If i were a fireman worried about my future, i would use my spare time to retrain in a less strenuous career to be taken up in my 50s or whatever.

ghostyslovesheep Fri 31-Oct-14 09:22:53

oh dear hmm did you mean to be so goady - oh and they are fire-fighters - women can be employed to do the basic manual work these days

Preciousbane Fri 31-Oct-14 09:27:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ApocalypseThen Fri 31-Oct-14 09:30:21

Is there any particular reason why you need to trust anyone about someone else's financial affairs? Workers are not happy with their conditions so they ballot for strike action as is their right. They don't need to beg for your approval to exercise it.

chilephilly Fri 31-Oct-14 09:36:40

I'm a teacher. My pension contributions have risen massively but I won't get the final salary pension I signed up to AND PAID INTO. I've got to work till I'm 68 (or die at the chalk face).
Why does it have to be a race to the bottom? I want my pension which is fully affordable (or would be if the Govt stopped doing a Robert Maxwell on the Teachers Pension scheme) and which I will have paid into for 40 years. Why's that wrong?

bonded Fri 31-Oct-14 09:43:05

Is there any particular reason why you need to trust anyone about someone else's financial affairs? Workers are not happy with their conditions so they ballot for strike action as is their right. They don't need to beg for your approval to exercise it.

I think everyone should take an interest in public finances.

Anyway my Facebook is full of invites to like these strikes. I don't want to like this until I know enough about it.

bonded Fri 31-Oct-14 09:43:45

Chilie can you give the actual figures to what has changed?

MassaAttack Fri 31-Oct-14 10:42:11

Lol at fire fighting being basic manual work.

Re teachers, their pension scheme is entirely self-funding. There was no economic reason to change the Ts&Cs, it was purely political.

Much of the rest of us in the public sector had it coming. Our unions are bloody dreadful though, and have seriously let us down.

bonded Fri 31-Oct-14 11:00:18

Re teachers, their pension scheme is entirely self-funding. There was no economic reason to change the Ts&Cs, it was purely political.

For now and the next x years? Do you have stats?

Both sides seem to say its not fair, but don't follow up with stats to back it up.

MaxPepsi Fri 31-Oct-14 11:42:40

He was promised a retirement age of 50, after joining at 19. The figures are irrelevant as it depends on what your salary is, however you are told you'll pay X into the pot and get X out.
Now, after 20plus years service and he's thinking of our future plans, he's been told he's to work longer and pay more in but not get it out.
An example a colleague gave, you have a mortgage for 25years and you are to pay X. Then, with 4 years to go the bank decidet that actually, no, you need to pay an extra 7 years of mortgage payments before the hhouse is yours and they are going to give that money to someone else.
That is why the fire service is striking. They don't want more money, they want what they have been paying for.

bonded Fri 31-Oct-14 11:57:16

The figures are irrelevant .

I think the figures are very relevant to determine if it is affordable. The gov just said on the radio that by 2018 there will be a deficit of 600m in the fb pension. If something is unaffordable reform is logical.

WillkommenBienvenue Fri 31-Oct-14 12:02:06

The government should have worked out what was affordable before they committed to the scheme. It's absurd to reneg on these things. These people are owed money, the government changing the terms is stealing, little else.

BoneyBackJefferson Fri 31-Oct-14 12:11:45


It was the Hutton report that states that the teacher's pension is self funding, It also recommended a review which may or may not have taken place as the government has refused to publish any findings from the review (if it did in fact happen).

BoneyBackJefferson Fri 31-Oct-14 12:15:49

One of the major issues with this is that the government goes from slating one pension pot (teacher, Firebrigade, nurse) to slating them all (public sector pensions).

Some of the schemes are self funding and anything left over goes in to the big spending pot, others are not self funding and require looking at.

UpNorthAgain Fri 31-Oct-14 12:34:40

Bonded, are you tying to do research on this issue by posing as a poster? I wouldn't be prepared to share detailed financial information with a complete stranger on an Internet forum, as you keep demanding. I'm a teacher and everything the previous teachers on this thread have said is true. I signed up to a final salary, retire at 60, scheme twenty years ago. Now, despite the fund not being in deficit, the government has changed this to retire at 67 ( which basically means teach until you die) and a career average pension. It was politically motivated and MPs meanwhile kept their platinum- plated scheme. Oh, and they are getting a 9 per cent pay rise after the election. I'm seriously pissed off about the way I have been shafted, and have struck and marched over this.

UpNorthAgain Fri 31-Oct-14 12:37:01

Oh,and I hate the 1984 Newspeak way the government keeps talking about 'reforming' public sector pensions. Pay more, work longer and receive less is NOT a reform. It's a change.

bonded Fri 31-Oct-14 12:40:40

Lol no I wish I was! I'm just looking for real life examples to know who's side I'm on.

Life expectancy is way above 67 anyway.

When you say not in decifict, do you mean now or projections in the future?

bonded Fri 31-Oct-14 12:46:24

Anyway I'm not demanding detailed personal financial information, just a few percentages and dates. % paid for x years to retire at y and receive z until death.

UpNorthAgain Fri 31-Oct-14 12:49:01

The TPS is self-funding now and in the future. There were changes made in 2008 (?) to ensure this. The government has refused to make public its most recent valuation, carried out after the 2010 election, which means that many teachers smell a rat (to put it politely). The life expectancy amongst teachers will decrease markedly if we have to teach until our late sixties. Would you like to have to deal with hormonal teenagers day in, day out at that age? It isn't what I was promised when I became a teacher, and I saw a good pension as a trade-off for indifferent wages, but now the pension has been ruined.

bonded Fri 31-Oct-14 12:51:39

Hasnt public sector pay increased over the years while remaining static in the private sector?

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