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To appeal this parking ticket even though I made an error?

(36 Posts)
CrashDiveOnMingoCity Fri 17-Oct-14 10:17:41

Fecking Parking Eye taking over my local hospital car park. angry

I read the sign and it said "blue badges free for up to 3 hours". It did not clearly state that you must take your blue badge into the hospital reception and have it validated. I have since found out that lots of disabled badge holders have been caught out, so at least it wasn't just me misunderstanding the ambiguous sign.

WIBU to appeal the parking ticket? Part of me thinks I should just pay the £60 for a quiet life but money is pretty damn tight at the moment.

ghostyslovesheep Fri 17-Oct-14 10:20:53

yes appeal - the sign was misleading and did not contain the information you needed

ChameleonCircuit Fri 17-Oct-14 10:21:08

It's always worth a try. If it doesn't clearly state the requirement for validation how would you know? I'd photograph the signs now, though, in case the sneaky gits change them when they realise.

ApocalypseNowt Fri 17-Oct-14 10:22:35

I think you have firm grounds for an appeal but yes, definitely photograph the signs as evidence first!

Blondieminx Fri 17-Oct-14 10:24:31

Definitely appeal it.

And write to PALS at the hospital explaining that requiring disabled badge holders to walk extra distances (taking their badges to/from their cars) is extremely unhelpful!

Staywithme Fri 17-Oct-14 10:26:23

I don't know much about parking fines but that's fecking disgusting! If you're disabled you may have mobility problems so need easier access, therefore disabled parking is provided. The last thing a monility affected person needs is having to walk to an office with their badge, all the way back to the car, then back to the hospital. What idiot thought that one up? So if I was taking my husband to one of his many hospital appointments, I would have to walk him to the reception, leave him by himself and hope he doesn't fall as there's usually no seats left, run back to the car, then back to him! That makes me so fucking angry! angry

Surely this is discrimination as it is making life MORE difficult for their disabled clients. I know that parking can be abused but the security staff do spot check in our hospital car park. Surely that makes more sense.

londonrach Fri 17-Oct-14 10:26:56

Appeal. Shocked they expect someone to go to reception with bb as mobility being the issue. Letter to pals too.

ghostyslovesheep Fri 17-Oct-14 10:30:06

I'm not 'shocked' they want you to give your badge details and I'm not sure it's a huge hardship - since you need to go to reception anyway for appointments

I would think Parking Eye can't make out BB's on camera so it prevents people abusing the spaces - which is a good thing

OP did the sign make no mention of the need to present your badge or did it say it but in small writing or not clearly - if it made no mention then you shouldn't have to pay

Mini05 Fri 17-Oct-14 10:30:54

Defo appeal or even forget about it and see if you get a reminder!!!

CrashDiveOnMingoCity Fri 17-Oct-14 10:32:32

I will go back this weekend and photograph the sign. I just need the brace myself first as the car park is a very stressful experience.

SistersOfPercy Fri 17-Oct-14 10:37:53

If it's parking eye then you shouldn't need to appeal, I think it's safe to ignore as it's an invoice rather than a fine technically.

Have a look on pepipoo for the most up to date information on this.

ghostyslovesheep Fri 17-Oct-14 10:39:24

yes check the latest info as the law changed recently and you should no longer ignore these notices

CrashDiveOnMingoCity Fri 17-Oct-14 10:39:38

The advice is no longer to ignore, you have to appeal or get a POPLA code. It was stressing about the money and reading this at 1 am, so I have only partially absorbed the information.

Staywithme Fri 17-Oct-14 10:40:28

and I'm not sure it's a huge hardship

It would definitely be a hardship for many of the patients my husband and I meet in the cancer unit. It means they have to walk a lot further as the lift to the unit is not near the reception. Many of the patients attend by themselves, for chemo, radiotherapy, etc. They suffer from exhaustion, pain, nausea, etc. Do you seriously think is not a huge hardship for them?

Many disabled people suffer from pain and just walking takes a huge amount of energy.

giraffescantboogie Fri 17-Oct-14 10:43:02

I got one from my hospital recently...are we not meant to ignore them anymore?

Floggingmolly Fri 17-Oct-14 10:44:23

Definitely appeal. You didn't make an error; they did.

ghostyslovesheep Fri 17-Oct-14 10:47:27

I didn't mean to dismiss any pain or difficulty - what ever words I had chosen would have been jumped on - I meant in return for having free parking and no parking ticket giving your badge details to someone is worth it

not every hospital is set up the same - at mine (where I have treatment) reception is in the main entrance and you have to go via it to get to every other department

NormaStits Fri 17-Oct-14 11:06:15

But ghosty, they'd have to go to reception, then walk back to the car to put their bblue badge back, then walk back to where theiraappointment is, so further than a non bb holder.

19lottie82 Fri 17-Oct-14 11:07:38

just to warn you, they won't grant your appeal, they never do. be aware that this is a "charge" not a fine, it is also not proportionate to their loss, so send them this letter

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: (Registration number/parking charge number/any other reference number.)

I am challenging your parking charge notice dated xxxx on the following grounds. Please respond to each individual point that I state.

1. The large sum demanded amounts to a penalty and/or is not an accurate reflection of any loss suffered so it is not a reasonable charge. Your monetary claim is disproportionate, punitive and unjustifiable in total. It may also be an unfair term and therefore in breach of Schedule 2 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Please provide a breakdown of how your demanded charge is calculated so that I can consider further whether it amounts to a penalty.

2. The contractual breach can have caused no financial loss whatever to you or to the land owner but if you believe it has please set out the details clearly in your response. If you believe I have committed a trespass please substantiate your consequential actual loss. There were, for example, unoccupied places available for others to park so my presence did not prevent the parking of other cars and their making of payments.

3. I saw no signage in the place where I parked or at the entrance to the area where I parked. The requirements are that clear signage must be erected at each entrance and additional signage installed throughout the area. Therefore I have not entered into a contract with you.

4. Having since re-visited the site and researched the rules I now understand why the signage was not clear to me at the time of my visit. DELETE THE FOLLOWING ITEMS THAT DO NOT APPLY

There is not clear signage at every entrance to the car park/ land stating the restrictions in force.

There are not sufficient additional signs placed around the area stating the restrictions that are in force.

The letters on the entrance signs do not meet the minimum height of 50mm necessary for adequate driver information.

The parking signs around the site are smaller than the minimum necessary size of 450mm x 450mm.

The BPA and APS logos are not clearly displayed on the signage despite it being a specific requirement for compliant signage.

You are using ANPR camera systems but this is not clearly advertised on the signage.

5. Your Civil Parking Notice constitutes an invoice for payment. Accordingly your invoiced charge must include an element of VAT. However, your civil parking notice does not state either a VAT registration number or an invoice reference number and so cannot constitute a lawfully valid demand for payment.

6. Having examined your parking charge notice I believe it is a non compliant demand for payment for the following reasons: DELETE THE FOLLOWING ITEMS THAT DO NOT APPLY

Valid private parking notices issued after October 2012 must be called "Parking Charge Notices" This notice is wrongly stated to be a "civil parking notice"

Your notice refers to a “contravention” which is misleading for implying it to have been issued by a statutory authority. The term "contravention" which is usable only in penalty charge notices issued by local authorities is neither correct nor appropriate terminology for a civil parking notice.

Your notice refers in the text to being a PCN/ penalty charge notice, this term being attributed to a penalty charge notice issued by a local authority. It is therefore easily confused with a statutory penalty charge notice. The BPA is clear in its rules that such abbreviations and terms are not permissible.

Your notice wrongly requires payment to be made “within” 28 days which is contrary to statutory requirement that provides a period of 28 days from the date of receipt.

7. I understand that, as a legal minimum, the Parking Charge Notice must include a prescribed set of information. The following is not shown on your notice and therefore it is invalid. DELETE THE FOLLOWING ITEMS WHICH DO NOT APPLY

When and how the parking offence took place;

The time and date when the notice was issued;

How much is due;

The amount of any discount for prompt payment of the charge;

How, when and to whom payment may be made;

The arrangements provided for the resolution of disputes or complaints – both for your own internal arrangements and for an independent appeals process.

8. I understand that a Parking Charge Notice must also include the following which is absent from the notice you have provided and therefore it may be invalid. DELETE THE FOLLOWING ITEMS WHICH DO NOT APPLY

A unique reference number

The vehicle registration number

The make of the vehicle

Why the ticket was issued

A detailed location of the vehicle

An identifier number of the warden who issued the ticket

The operator’s company registration number

Details of available methods of payment, and where and how challenges can be sent

A statement that you will enquire from the DVLA details of the registered keeper

Any additional charges which may be levied.

The B.P.A and A.O.S. logos

9. The rules of the BPA require you to allow a grace period either to allow a motorist to read the signs and make payment or decide whether parking is permitted, and at the end of a period of paid for time or maximum stay to allow for discrepancies in the time shown on different devices. A reasonable grace period would be 5 minutes but it may be that the owners of this site have instructed you to offer a different grace period. Please advise the actual grace period in operation so that I can assess whether you have acted reasonably.

10. If this challenge / appeal is rejected, to enable me to prepare a formal appeal to P.O.P.L.A please provide the following documentation:

Please delete any items which you do not require.

A copy of your contract with the land owner which authorises you to act on their behalf in the management of this car parking area.

A copy of the contract which you allege I entered in to when I parked.

Photographic evidence of the actual signs in situ, together with identification of the locations around the site where these signs are currently placed. Please also confirm the date when the photographs were taken (if not evident from the photographs themselves) and whether you have made any alterations to the signage since the photograph was taken.

A copy of the full terms and conditions for use of the land where I was allegedly parked wrongly.

A copy of your certificate of membership of the BPA

A copy of your protocol which your enforcement and CCTV operators are required to follow.

A copy of your standard appeal procedure and confirm whether or not it complies with the Arbitration Act 1996.

Full details of the owner of the parking area (if it is not already stated in the copy contract above) as I wish to send them a copy of my letter to you.

A copy of all of the images that you have of my vehicle. I understand that the Data Protection Act entitles me to all of this information.

A copy of your protocol for handling personal data such as images of my vehicle. I assume that such data is not disclosed to any third party (other than POPLA in the event of an appeal) but please confirm this.

Please provide this information within 35 days of receipt. If you are unable to provide any of the requested documents please provide a reason for each omission.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,

Your Name

19lottie82 Fri 17-Oct-14 11:10:41

EDIT accordingly, obviously.

The general point is, they cannot make money from this charge, all they are legally entitled to is compensation for their loss. How much have they lost by you parking there? Not the £60 or whatever they are trying to charge you anyway. Maybe the average rate of a city centre car park for the time you overstayed, and that's it.

IF you didn't pay, and they took you to court (which they wouldn't, because.......) all a judge would award would be what they have lost. Not a random charge amount.

jacks365 Fri 17-Oct-14 11:13:15

NormaStits we have a similar system in our local hospital but you don't need to display the badge in the car it just needs to be registered with the desk as you enter the hospital so it doesn't add any additional walking on to a visit to the hospital. I think they do it this way because it cuts down on fraudulently using the blue badges. The car park for blue badge holders is completely separate.

OwlinaTree Fri 17-Oct-14 11:16:16

I had a fine at hospital car park. Dh paid and put the wrong registration number in, his car instead of my car. I appealed on line, including a photo of the ticket with the wrong reg and the top of the V5 with reg and name and address on. They let me off, even though it was our error. So they do grant appeals.

Try appealing on line if you can, include a photo of the blue badge and explain what happened. You could include a picture of the sign if it's unclear. Good luck!

19lottie82 Fri 17-Oct-14 11:19:40

Owlinatree - Don't mean to be pedantic, but you didn't get a fine, you got a (unenforceable) charge. It's important people recognise the difference, so they're not bullied in to paying these huge amounts by scaremongers.

OwlinaTree Fri 17-Oct-14 11:23:51

Yes Lottie I know what you mean, and if they'd not 'let me off' then I would not have had to pay, but the point was I appealed and they revoked it. So it is possible to get it revoked when it's an error on your part.

SauvignonBlanche Fri 17-Oct-14 11:27:31

That's ridiculous, expecting BB holders to walk further! Phone PALS about it.

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