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to be shocked and scandalised that this went on unchecked for so long? [MN edit; contains details of current Rotherham news story, possibly triggering]

(377 Posts)
ReputableBiscuit Tue 26-Aug-14 17:00:16

ArabellaTarantella Tue 26-Aug-14 17:20:08

People are so bloody scared of being seen as racist that this is the result. More to come as well I suspect.

QueenTilly Tue 26-Aug-14 17:23:20


I don't understand how this happened. I'm generally far more concerned about sexism, racism, or any other form of discrimination than the next person, but I just don't see how this delusion that arresting rapists was racist developed.

BarbarianMum Tue 26-Aug-14 17:23:59

I think there was a bit more to it than people worrying about being seen as racist. Years and years of chronic mismanagement and budget cutting in children's social services for a start. Rotherham has been failing its young people for yonks sad.

SantasLittleMonkeyButler Tue 26-Aug-14 17:26:14

It is terrible. All those poor children :-(

Pancakeflipper Tue 26-Aug-14 17:31:31

I sadly have heard a few of the stories. And only a few. The vastness is horrific.
There's a level of grooming from boys aged 16+ engaging girls under age in sexual activities that has stunned me.

And I thought I'd seen most horrific stuff.

And the instances I know of weren't vulnerable looked after children being groomed, but from happy stable homes. Families devastated, feeling guilt because of the evil from others, all feeling they no longer know each other. Their once close families wiped.

This town fudged around this issue for years. I am furious with them for ignoring it for so long. I am not one at all to call for resignations from professions involved but in this instance it's a disgrace and they have to take on their responsibility and accountability. A lot of repairing to do.

AbbieHoffmansAfro Tue 26-Aug-14 17:38:41

It's all about being afraid to be seen as racist? Really? How about:
the report said police "regarded many child victims with contempt".

Victim-blaming, the "othering" of the children concerned and just not caring enough, more like. Add not having the stomach or the energy for complex investigations, and you have a carte blanche for abusers.

Smilesandpiles Tue 26-Aug-14 17:43:03

The race card is thrown about a lot, it's almost predictable when a complaint is made against someone how happens to fit the description of certain races.

This is just the start of it and it's not surprising at all. There will be worse to come I should imagine.

Smilesandpiles Tue 26-Aug-14 17:43:23

Who - not how.

3littlefrogs Tue 26-Aug-14 17:58:10

A local MP tried to get something done about this at least 10 years ago.
She was accused of racism.
I remember listening to her being interviewed on the radio.

The fact is that there are areas and enclaves in some Northern towns that are "no go areas" if you are not from a Pakistani background.

There is a culture and a belief system in these places - particularly among the young men, that young white girls are subhuman, trash, expendable.
This has been known for years by local people, but it has not been socially acceptable to say so without being accused of racism.

This is hard for those of us who live in racially mixed and tolerant areas to understand and accept. We don't want to believe it. sad

SantasLittleMonkeyButler Tue 26-Aug-14 17:59:38

I agree the negligence goes much further than just not wanting to appear racist.

If someone is under suspicion of committing a crime in this country, they are questioned & the situation investigated. The laws are the same for everyone irrespective of race, age (so long as an adult) or sex.

Had this particular group of abusers been predominantly white males of british origin, then I can't imagine for a moment that their race would have even made it into news reports. The only people who are going to assume that being Asian had anything whatsoever to do with the crimes very probably hold racist views anyway.

3littlefrogs Tue 26-Aug-14 18:06:00

I really have to disagree with you.
Cultural beliefs and attitudes played a huge part in this.
That is not to say that child abuse and exploitation doesn't happen in all groups and is perpetrated by people of all races and backgrounds. But to deny the role of culture and belief in this particular case is counterproductive. It is going to be very, very difficult to deal with because it will require a massive amount of education.

My DH is Asian, my DC are mixed race. My PIL, who are well educated people, come out with the most cringeworthy, embarrassing racist comments and see absolutely nothing wrong with their opinions.

moggiek Tue 26-Aug-14 18:10:55

Hear, hear 3little

gotolder Tue 26-Aug-14 18:23:04

Child abuse and exploitation is also rife amongst those whom we expect to protect the victims and expose the perpetrators. I will not be surprised that, when the full story eventually emerges, amongst those 'provided' by the perpetrators many will have been abused by 'pillars of the community' - Police, Teachers, Councillors et al. I feel sick to my stomach when only one side of the story is told - if there were no abusers there would be no 'providers' (pimps).

Kendodd Tue 26-Aug-14 18:30:28

Yes, but sadly not shocking.

I heard on the radio that a couple of the girls' fathers were arrested when they tracked down their children and tried to remove them for the houses where they were being abused. The children were then left with the abusers.

Pancakeflipper Tue 26-Aug-14 18:31:15

Sadly true 3little. It's going down from generation to generation and young teenage boys are learning that girls are to abuse sexually. Education is essential to break this chain.

DoristheCamel Tue 26-Aug-14 18:34:19

Absolutely horrific. Sadly I think there is a lot more to come.

Greengrow Tue 26-Aug-14 18:35:10

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AbbieHoffmansAfro Tue 26-Aug-14 18:48:10

The manner in which this abuse took place looks to have had specific cultural components, which must be addressed. However, let's not kid ourselves that the problem is confined to a particular group, in Rochdale or anywhere else. Men and women of all stripes engage in this loathsome activity, they just justify it differently.

ilovechristmas1 Tue 26-Aug-14 18:56:16

my friend comes from Rochdale and told me a few years ago that this had been going on for years and years there

she also said as a teen her and her friends were often approached by Asian men driving by,some roads white females would not walk down or white males for that matter

Ronmione Tue 26-Aug-14 19:06:51

*heard on the radio that a couple of the girls' fathers were arrested when they tracked down their children and tried to remove them for the houses where they were being abused. The children were then left with the abusers.*

And those same families have had to endure all that judgement from people questioning their parenting

sashh Tue 26-Aug-14 19:08:37

There is a culture and a belief system in these places - particularly among the young men, that young white girls are subhuman, trash, expendable.

And amongst white people that white girls know this so those who are 'involved' with them in anyway are trash and expendable.

she also said as a teen her and her friends were often approached by Asian men driving by

Ah, yes, I remember the Eid celebrations involving shouting if you wanted 'jigga jigga'

And yes I know it is not the majority. I know it has nothing to do with religion or skin colour.

StormyBrid Tue 26-Aug-14 19:12:05

Greengrow, though it's interesting to hear what's viewed as acceptable in other cultures, if it's going to be such a graphic description, a trigger warning might be an idea...

Flipflops7 Tue 26-Aug-14 19:34:59

I am scandalised, but not shocked, unfortunately.

whataboutbob Tue 26-Aug-14 19:45:18

I think a lot of white UK people are naive and don t realise or don t want to realise that in most Islamic cultures 1) a good," clean"" woman is a virgin until her wedding night 2) a woman who isn t is dirty ( moral/ sexual dirt being far worse than physical dirt, and 3) most white women fall into the 2 nd category. In the eyes of some Muslims, this legitimises their abuse. When you have disaffected youths from Pakistani areas, where inter generational communication may not be great but expectations are still traditional, some are obviously choosing to behave in viciously deviant ways. I remember one imam saying there clearly is a problem in the community, and being slated by his own folk. And yes I believe the police have been terrified of being accused of being racist.

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