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to think there is nothing wrong with doing this

(25 Posts)
wellir Tue 19-Aug-14 17:52:27

My brother has been temping in the civil service for the last few months. He has applied for several jobs in the department during that period. He has been offered a position in a different department (although still within the same Civil Service department)to the one he is currently working in which he has accepted and he is due to start a week on Monday. He has also applied for a job in the department he is currently working in and is waiting to hear back on it. He is planning on walking out on this job he has been offered if he is successful in the recruitment for this and he will then use the security clearance from the proposed job to get an immediate start as apparently this can take some time.
He views it as a win-win situation in that he ensures a quick start if he gets the job and the other job is an insurance policy if he doesn’t. DP thinks this is a shockingly underhand way of going about his business as he is leading people up the garden path with the hope of using them and throwing them away if everything goes to plan. I think that its his career and he should go for the area that he wants to work and if he can expediate it then so be it.

PossumPoo Tue 19-Aug-14 17:56:30

In my company once he had accepted a role in one department we wouldn't consider him for another role in another role which is probably the same here.

just because he's applied doesn't mean they are considering him.

PossumPoo Tue 19-Aug-14 17:57:28

*consider him for another role in another department

Sorry trying to cook dinner!

MiscellaneousAssortment Tue 19-Aug-14 18:04:03

Well he has to think about how it will look and whether it will colour people's judgement of him in his new role.

Departments arent completely isolated and people move between them/ know each other. Screwing over one in favour of another won't be looked on well unless he's very careful to be up front about it and completely honest about it and the fact that he will have caused a problem.

Smoolett Tue 19-Aug-14 18:04:11

In the civil service you tend to have to have approval from your line manager before you can apply internally. Id be pretty surprised if they allow him to do this.

AlpacaMyBags Tue 19-Aug-14 18:06:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ICanSeeTheSun Tue 19-Aug-14 18:14:01

In my works to move within the building you need to apply and then still have the DBS and go through the same process.

Vitalstatistix Tue 19-Aug-14 18:24:34

how will walking out on one job while still working for what is in effect the same company benefit him?

they will talk, won't they?

I would be surprised if such kind of behaviour would help his career. He'd be more likely to be viewed negatively.

Ijustworemytrenchcoat Tue 19-Aug-14 18:37:32

I've been treated shockingly bad by the public sector before and have seen some pretty underhand tactics applied by my managers while looking for employees as well. He should look after number one. If it was a small private business where it might be damaging I might think differently but for the civil service he should go for it.

wellir Tue 19-Aug-14 18:38:44

He's had an interview for the other job so they are considering him. As he went through the external route (as he is still not technically a civil servant as he works for an agency currently) so the new department aren't aware currently.

AnneElliott Tue 19-Aug-14 18:45:43

Are both jobs in the same civil service department but different sections? If different departments, we don't always accept security clearance from elsewhere so he might not save himself any time.

If same dept but different sections then he needs to be careful as people do talk to each other- even in the public sector grin

Not sure which dept he works for obviously, but in mine, if he changed his mind we would cancel the request for security clearance as we have to pay for each one that is done.

Be careful is my advice.

wellir Tue 19-Aug-14 18:50:19

AnneElliott- Yeah same department but different sections. He's already been cleared so no chance of it being cancelled.

nickelbabe Tue 19-Aug-14 18:51:38

I think he'd need to discuss it properly and openly with his line manager.

technically, he as agency and he as CS will be different employers, but if he does it "walking out" on his new job, it will not bode well for him.
at all

wellir Tue 19-Aug-14 19:54:55

Nickelbabe- He says that as he's going through the external route the new section will have no choice but to let him go as he can always hand his notice in and get a start date the same way a non-civil servant would.

nickelbabe Tue 19-Aug-14 20:06:10

I don't like the sound of that at all.
I think he might be downplaying it in gis gead.
yes, technically he can. and they can't withdraw the job offer once they've nade it, but he's putting himself in a very bad light if he does so.

TimeForAnotherNameChange Tue 19-Aug-14 20:25:54

It's not so much that people talk even in the civil service, but that they talk especially in the civil service! He needs to understand that he is potentially crippling his career by doing this. He may get away with it, he may not. Having worked in a variety of service Departments myself in both administrative and specialist roles, I wouldn't bet on him though, put it that way. And they can withdraw an offer once made, as they are usually subject to references and certain terms being met...

Stripyhoglets Tue 19-Aug-14 21:29:21

I think if he does this it could cause problems even if he technically gets away with it. Tbh the dept he's in may well just let him go rather than waste time training him but if he goes in with the attitude that he can do what he wants and stuff them, he may find his career in the civil service doesn't progress as much as he would hope.

wellir Tue 19-Aug-14 21:34:15

nickelbabe- I see your point to an extent but if he isn't going to work with them again and the old department are happy to take him (and I believe they are as they've tried to switch the location of the job to them but it was declined) then what does it matter.

NewJobNewLife Wed 20-Aug-14 02:27:53

There's no such thing as never going to work with them again in the civil service, there really isn't.

In my department it would depend on his next actions. If he stays for a long time in the second team, and is good at what he does, then he may repair the damage caused by the move. If he flits again, he'll be marked as a time waster.

It will depend on the line manager in the first team releasing him to the second role though, as internal transfers (which this will be, regardless of application route, are at te discretion of the business. It would be unusual, though not unheard of, for a manager to block a move. Normal expectations are at least 12-18 months in a role before a level transfer (different of moving on promotion).

Morloth Wed 20-Aug-14 03:16:16

Burning bridges like that is a really really stupid thing to do.

He might be 'able' to do it, but it sounds like a bad idea.

FryOneFatManic Wed 20-Aug-14 03:31:36

If he starts the first job, knowing that if he's accepted for the second one he'll move, then this will be classed as an internal move. He'll be on probation when he starts and there are usually restrictions on moving to a new role while on probation.

If he tries the trick of quitting the first role to take up the second he'll get a reputation that'll be hard to shake, assuming that the second dept will actually take him on in this circumstance.

I used to be a manager in the civil service and wouldn't have wanted to take on someone who could be so fickle.

And people talk in the civil service, they really do, this would follow him round. I used to hear about things that happened at the other end of the country as if it happened locally, because people move around in the civil service all the time.

There's no such thing as never going to work with them again in the civil service, there really isn't.

Totally echo this^^

grannymcphee Thu 25-Sep-14 21:28:19

So this kid thinks he can fool the Civil Service? He won't last 5 minutes!

theendoftheendoftheend Thu 25-Sep-14 21:34:46

Happens where i work, the job usually gets offered to the second best applicant as long as they were up to par. It might be inconvenient for one department but i thought it was fairly normal.

A colleague did this. Applied for, got and started a job in a Civil Service department but 6 weeks later moved into another job in a different department she had applied for simultaneously iyswim. That was 25 years ago. She is still known as the woman who let people down.

The Civil Service has a very long memory.

hormonalandneedingcheese Thu 25-Sep-14 22:06:42

It depends, he should look into it all and bear in mind that in the civil service you are on probation for 6 months. If he was already a civil servant, he wouldn't have that but as he is technically not then he will be.

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