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To wonder if the head teacher is allowed to say no?

(61 Posts)
extremepie Mon 16-Jun-14 15:38:08

Admittedly it has not happened yet but I'm trying to prepare a preemptive strike for when I meet with the head teacher at DC's school!

I am applying to uni and looking at the days/times I will need to be at lessons and factoring in travel times it looks like I will need to be out from 9am until about 5pm. This will fit in with the school times as long as I can use the breakfast club for the kids in the mornings and after school clubs for them in the afternoons.


Ds2 has autism and a 1:1, currently he does not do a full day at school but we have a plan in place to gradually increase his school hours so he is full time by the end of the summer term. My concern is that if I want him to attend after school club and breakfast club in the morning the HT will say he can't because the 1:1 is not funded outside 'school hours' and there will be no on to do 1:1 for him.

DC's used to attend breakfast club and I was told I had to sit with him until the start of the school day because his 1:1 didn't start till then - obviously in this situation I won't be able to do this as I will need to leave to get to uni on time!

Aibu in wondering if he is actually allowed to refuse to let ds attend after school/breakfast clubs? What can I say if he does say no?

I really don't have any other options for childcare as I am a single parent and have no family or friends in the area who could do the childcare for me if the school does say no!

He could, of course, be fine with the whole thing but given my experiences so far and all the aggro I've had just trying to get them to take ds for a full school day I am expecting some resistance on his part :/

MimiSunshine Mon 16-Jun-14 15:42:23

I think the most likely response will be "he can attend before / after school club but we (the school) cant fund his 1:1 to be with him during that time, therefore if you are happy for him to attend without the 1:1 that is fine by us".
That is assuming he wouldn't pose a risk to himself or others without a 1:1 present.

MadameDefarge Mon 16-Jun-14 15:44:24

That's hard, but I think the head is within their rights to refuse your ds. Breakfast clubs and afterschool clubs are not 'school' activities, and many are run independently of the school. If your ds needs 1:1 thenhe will need that for those activities too, as they will not be set up to provide him with the support and care he needs.

If you feel he could manage, it would be worth talking to them about a trial for the rest of this term, to see how he goes.

extremepie Mon 16-Jun-14 15:47:01

I think he would probably need a 1:1 present, when I was attending breakfast club with him before I frequently needed to stop him running into the kitchen where the breakfast was being served (dangerous for obvious reasons!) or stop him running out the doors (and therefore out into the roads) - he has no danger awareness so needs to be closely supervised at all times really :/

CoffeeTea103 Mon 16-Jun-14 15:47:03

I think the head will be perfectly reasonable to decline this.

MadameDefarge Mon 16-Jun-14 15:47:18

Are you applying for this September?

If not, then your ds might be in a very different place and if you build him up to the clubs over the next academic year, then it might all be fine.

partialderivative Mon 16-Jun-14 15:47:23

I really don't know if the school is obliged to provide 1:1 outside school hours, I don't think you ABU to ask.

But I imagine every school has to budget for every penny, so if the HT refuses and is not obliged, I think you should accept the decision.

Rideronthestorm Mon 16-Jun-14 15:48:06

I think it unlikely that the people providing the care will agree. if DS needs a 1:1 in school then they will probably feel unable to cope with his needs. They are not obliged to provide places and if they feel thy will be unable to cope are within their rights to refuse.

Maybe a child minder would be better.

DeepThought Mon 16-Jun-14 15:48:34

HT won't refuse the before and after school place, the management of the asc will have final say

The 1:1 will be engaged for school hours only

You may be able to make a private arrangement with the 1:1 though, for the before and after school place?

MadameDefarge Mon 16-Jun-14 15:49:51

the 1:1 budget really should not be used to facilitate the parents career choices, it should be used for children who need it, and who are not statemented.

I mean that very nicely!

redskyatnight Mon 16-Jun-14 15:51:24

At the DC's ASC there was a boy who had 1:1 support. His 1:1 attended ASC with him. No idea about the funding aspect, possibly the parents funded it themselves?

KittyandTeal Mon 16-Jun-14 15:51:57

If he needs a 1:1 to stay safe or others to be safe the head would be within rights to refuse to allow him to attend.

The school does not need to fund a 1:1 for before and after school (plus the 1:1 might not want to work those hours)

extremepie Mon 16-Jun-14 15:52:16

I can't get a childminder as there are none in my local area at all that could cater for his needs, since I can't drive I can't drop him off anywhere either sad Just sorting out 4hrs respite for him a week was hard enough and the lady that's doing that can't do week days with him as it clashes with her other commitments.

I understand it would be difficult for the school but I really don't have any other option, other than to not go to uni (yes, it would be September entry btw smile )

MadameDefarge Mon 16-Jun-14 15:56:14

I think it probably was redsky.

I was 1:1 for a little boy for three years, and my pitiful salary of £10K was only for school hours, termtime.

I might well have been happy to do pre and afterschool activities with him if his parents had paid, but I was also a single parent with my own DS to look after so that would have been a no from me.

However there are charities who might be positive about helping you fund this, the Fawcett Trust? Google grants available for might strike lucky and find one that supports women in education.

MadameDefarge Mon 16-Jun-14 15:57:06

Could you do part-time Uni? it is a compromise, but might work that way.

Pooka Mon 16-Jun-14 15:57:40

Is this a fee paying before and after school club?

Our one is, in that parents pay for before and after school care, enough for the setting to not make a profit, but to break even.

If your ds needs 1:1 and this is not funded (unlikely since it is not educational need but childcare need) then I really think it's unlikely that the club would be able to take your ds. They would need an additional staff member with no additional funding to cover the cost and if it is a not-for-profit provision it would become uneconomical.

PeterParkerSays Mon 16-Jun-14 15:58:01

Breakfast clubs and after school clubs are not part of school, and are often run by bodies separate to the teaching staff. I'd go with your experience to date and expect the head to say no. I am a complete novice on this, but if he does, can you complain from a DDA angle, as they'd be depriving your DC of a service accessible to other students?

MimiSunshine Mon 16-Jun-14 15:58:30

That's really difficult for you. I would ask the school but be prepared for a no funding response and then ask your DS's 1:1 if they'd be prepared to enter a private arrangement for x hours and y £ per week or if there is someone they can recommend.

sparechange Mon 16-Jun-14 15:58:44

So what are you hoping will happen? confused
Regardless of what the head says, he can't be there unsupervised.
So if the head says he can go, without his 1:1, would you even let him?

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime Mon 16-Jun-14 15:59:17

could you fund raise? see if a local paper will help?

MadameDefarge Mon 16-Jun-14 16:00:04

I don't think that would work, Peter, as the HTs obligations would be limited to school hours only, unless before and after school care were mandated as compulsory by the govt.

BlackeyedSusan Mon 16-Jun-14 16:02:54

they do need to make reasonable adjustments: eg stair gate over the kitchen, or extra high lock on the door. unfortunately a 1:1 will probably not be classed as reasonable.

whois Mon 16-Jun-14 16:06:22

It's not really the schools problem to sort out your child are tho is it? They don't have to offer ASC at all.

Tricky one but maybe you can pay someone to be his 1-2-1 at the B/ACS?

meditrina Mon 16-Jun-14 16:07:20

Have you worked out how much the additional hours of 1:1 would cost, and do you know if the school-hours provider is available to cover some or all the hours you need?

extremepie Mon 16-Jun-14 16:07:36

It is a fee paying breakfast club and after school club that are run by the school (it's an academy, don't know if this makes a difference or not?).

The course would only be for 2/3 days a week anyway, do you think that would help? Personally I wouldn't mind going in for 5 half days rather than 2/3 full days to make up the extra work but in don't know if that would be doable with the uni and I might miss a lot of stuff :/

While I appreciate that the school kind of have their hands tied with regards to funding for extra staff members etc it does slightly grate on me that if he was NT there would be no problem with him attending sad

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