To worry that I'm under-reacting??

[Waltermittythesequel]

DH seems to think so.

Dd(5) in junior infants, I think that's Reception in the UK?

Picked her up today and she was visibly upset.

There's a little girl who has form for being a bit nasty to dd among others but teacher handles it very well and some days they're the best of friends so I just tend to leave it.

Anyway she had been upset and crying about this little girl, teacher said it was justified but she'd told the girl off so all was settled.

Later that same day there was an assembly in the hall. Teacher was sent by principal to copy something and when she came back dd was sobbing.

I should say, dd is not like this at all and has never (literally never) been in trouble.

Someone had run when they weren't supposed to, he assumed it was dd and he told her off.

Now, he's a lovely man but he has form for being too soft sometimes and too harsh others.

Another teacher was present when he told off dd.

She called dd's teacher to one side and said that she'd had to step in because a) she saw who had done it but worse b) he had roared at dd. Really bellowed and had bent down to her face.

Dd burst into tears and he seemed genuinely shocked that she had cried but other teacher (who came in to back up dd's teacher's account) said he really went hell for leather.

When she stepped in he took it back but did not apologise.

So anyway (sorry it's long!) teacher told me all this. I won't say I wasn't concerned but I kind of thought what can I do? It was dealt with. Dd had to be taken outside to calm down and they were going to call me she was so upset (again, has never, ever happened).

But it's coming toward the end of term and she's tired, she was upset from this other girl and I'm thinking even adults get it wrong sometime, I'm sure he wasn't intentionally 'mean' to a five year old so I kind of dropped it.

Dh and my mum are furious and they think i let it go too easily.

So, MN, AIBU to not do/say anything? Should I have reacted differently? And if so, WWYD now?

[Waltermittythesequel]

Oh god, sorry for the novel

[ShowMeYourTARDIS]

What sort of man screams in a 5-year-old's face?

[deakymom]

^^ a bad person tardis

you never shout in a childs face even as a parent its considered wrong as a teacher its extremely wrong

make an appointment and tell them you have a problem with this

[littlejohnnydory]

Um, I think you arie under reacting. My Reception age dd would be really frightened if a grown man screamed in her face. Is that a usual part of the school discipline procedure for running indoors? I doubt it. Plus the fact that your dd didn't even do it. I would be speaking to the Head, and waniting to see the teacher concerned apologise to dd.

[tallwivglasses]

Yes, I think I'd have to have a word. I'd be worried about getting the nice teacher into trouble though. Perhaps a discreet letter to the governors?

[Waltermittythesequel]

Thanks all.

I'd be worried about getting the nice teacher into trouble though

Yes, I am worried about this, though it won't stop me from defending my dd.

I do get on very well with this teacher (we chat outside of school about non-school things etc. I knew her before) so I think she told me more than she probably would have IYSWIM.

I'm really shocked. My dc have been attending the school now for three years and my nieces before that. I've never heard of him acting this way and he's always seemed really good with the children, very child focused.

I think I'm hesitant because of that. I just can't quite believe it!

Going to bed she was crying and begging me not to send her in. I'll admit I've had a little cry too on her behalf. DH wants to punch him. Because that's appropriate!

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

It's sound like he lost control. Teachers, especially senior teachers should not lose control at a tiny child.

I would be going in to talk to him about this, if not for this incidence, to show that you will speak up for your child, for the next few years of her in the school...

I wouldn't be raging angry and I think you are right not to be, but please do be firm and clear if you do decide to speak to the school

[Waltermittythesequel]

No, they shouldn't you're absolutely right.

I think I'll have to go in, I can't leave it can I? Nor do I want to, really. I don't want to let my dd down.

I wish he'd had the decency to apologise.

[ViviPru]

he assumed it was dd and he told her off. is 'he' the principal? Sorry if I'm being dim but I've read your op a couple of times and it's not clear to me...

[ManchesterAunt]

I think for her sake you have to go in. If he apologises will she feel better do you think?

I remember hating being told off - and for it to be wrong would be awful. The injustice, feeling like you can't say it wasn't you because he was shouting, will compound her upset. I think if he has a little meeting with you and her and says he was wrong it will help.

[Waltermittythesequel]

Sorry, yes he is the principal.

So Miss A (dd's teacher) left the room and he was supervising her class but Miss B was still in the room (hall) with her class and related it to Miss A and me, later on.

Miss B was also the teacher who stepped in and told him to stop and that he had the wrong child.

[ViviPru]

I see, thanks for clarifying. I annoy myself with my desperation to form an accurate scene in my mind.. ManchesterAunt has good advice.

[Waltermittythesequel]

If he apologises will she feel better do you think?

I think so, yes. The shouting frightened her but I think it's the unfairness that's really bothering her.

She tries so hard in school. Her older brother has done very well there and she wants to follow in his footsteps I think! She's never in trouble, constantly being praised for her good work and her good behaviour. I'm not trying to paint her as an angelic prodigy just want to paint a picture of how utterly terrified she would be to do something wrong!

[WiggleGinger]

There are many times when parents stand up for their children / try to get them out of detentions / over rule teachers when its not necessary.
THIS IS NOT THAT TIME.
She's little, really little & is going to be very scared of him, I can only imagine her thoughts, if it was me I wouldn't give much of a shit that he was usually nice.

Without sounding extreme this could really out you DD off going to school and that's really not fair poor love.

No punching him isn't wise but I can totally understand your husbands reaction. He's feeling that someone of his size had upset his little girl and clearly wants to make the other guy feel like his little girl did. Again two wrongs and all that, but equally its his paternal instinct to resolve.
I think having a meeting/ formal conversation is highly necessary.
I hope your little one feels assured and you feel better soon.

[Helpys]

It must have been bad if the other teacher passed it on to you.

[Waltermittythesequel]

You're right, there's just no excuse for it!

I don't know exactly how to approach it though.

Do I demand an apology or what?!

[maddening]

Definitely raise it formally and keep your phone ready to candidly record any further outbursts on school run etc she sounds stupid enough to carry it on and it is evidence.

[Cuddlydragon]

I'm sorry your DD is so upset. I do think you're under reacting though. I think for a senior teacher to lose his temper with such a young child is unforgivable to be honest. If he can't control his reaction to running, which is annoying and potentially unsafe, but still a relatively minor misbehaviour, how can he be trusted to control himself with a serious issue? I actually don't think an apology is enough to be honest. For other teachers to intervene it must have been awful. It was an abuse of power and control with a very very small child. It's never going to be easy for you to confront and I'm sure you'll feel terrible but it really isn't for you to come up with a solution but it is up to you to protect your DD.

[Waltermittythesequel]

So dh has stayed home today, I'm thankfully not working until the afternoon and we're both going in to see the principal.

We've decided the best way to approach it is not to demand apologies etc but to tell him about the aftermath: my dd crying all day, being afraid to go to school, feeling scared of a place that she loved up til now.

I'm hoping that he'll want to apologise after that. If not, I'm fully prepared to get tough.

Thank you all for your help!

I'll update when we're back.

[WiggleGinger]

Best of luck!
I hope he is absolutely mortified and embarrassed by his behaviour!
I hope your little one is feeling ok today xxx

[ManchesterAunt]

Good luck

[GoblinLittleOwl]

I think you are were being extremely sensible and clear-headed in your handling of your daughter, and please don't be swayed by your husband and mother. Just read latest post; your husband is taking time off work because his five year old daughter was upset at being told off. Ye gods.

[Waltermittythesequel]

Goblin I know!

Tbh I think because he's away so much with work he likes to overdo it when the opportunity arises.

Anyway, had to really persuade dd to go into school this morning.

Convinced dh to get a later train into work as I didn't want to escalate the drama. Gently questioned dd this morning and she was still quite upset so I thought right something needs to be done.

We were late in because she was begging not to go in and I'll admit I was tempted to leave her off but then I thought I can't do that.

1. Because I don't want to teach her to avoid difficult situations.
   

1. Because then principal wouldn't have a chance to address it with her directly.
   

1. Because I wanted to show her that I was going in there doing something about it.
   

Met principal at the door as he was shutting it and asked for a quick word with both him and teacher.

He immediately said "Is this about yesterday because I think I was at fault?"

You think?!

So I said yes it is, explained how upset dd had been, how scared and how unfair it was that she'd been blamed. I said I'd gone from her skipping into school to having to drag her.

He bent down to her to speak and I have to say, he was really good with her. He apologised, said he'd been having a really bad day and that sometimes grown ups make mistakes and he had made two; one, for mixing her up with the other child and two, for shouting because shouting was never ok.

I still insisted on speaking to teacher and said, pointedly, that dd was still upset today just to warn her that she wasn't herself.

Left dd (still a bit down) with her brilliant teacher and walked out with principal. I said that I appreciated the effort he'd made but that I had been really cross that school had gone from a happy place to somewhere she was scared to be.

I did acknowledge however, that she's exhausted and is getting a cold on her and that maybe she just felt generally rubbish!

I don't know if that was the right thing to do. But he apologised so really, what else could he do?!

[Mammysin]

Sorry this has happened. I think Principal was very much out of line and he has apologised to you and your little one. I would keep a close eye on dd and thank my lucky stars you had a teacher who was witness to these events. You could raise this with the Board of Management should anything else come of concern. DES have a complaints form if you have concerns about the behaviour of a staff member or principal. Good luck.

[Helpys]

What he did was awful, but that's a good result, particularly as he immediately said he was at fault.
I really hope your dd can get over this.