to think my upstairs neighbours are taking the utter...

[MoanyOldTiredMum]

Forgive me this is going to be epic and humiliating so have name-changed but I need to unload and get it all out in one and it has probably been moaned about loads before.

Moved in here about 15months ago, big old building (so no soundproofing, wooden floors etc), mostly owner occupier and mostly quite elderly so quiet, look after each other and all happy to have a poorly dc to dote on. Travelled a lot last year so wasn't around every weekend and only noticed occasional gatherings upstairs that got a little loud drunk chatty but generally seemed to be not too intrusive or late. Very quiet over summer then a BIG party followed by lots of DIY type noise leading me to think new owners were in and hopefully all would quiet down after the initial housewarming, settling in and then realising that your neighbours can hear EVERYTHING!

Wrong. Every other weekend, friday night preclub party upstairs, first I know is flat filling up with people from 930pm doesn't stop til after 1am. Then back at 4am crashing about, slamming doors etc. This is on top of 4am noisy taxi deliveries to the front door on thur/sat/sun, (thurs is student night here) so 4 nights per week plus the occasional tues or wed thrown in for good measure. New Year's Eve was the tipping point when I was woken at 530am by someone coming back putting on music for half an hour then turning it off (by which point I was up with dc) then once the bells went and my other neighbours came over for a drink and left about 1am, we all went to bed and upstairs party started at 2am and went on until 530am. I was zombie mum on new year's day, and lots of saturdays after.

There was a leak in my ceiling one feb eve so I had opportunity to meet upstairs neighbour, show her my flat, point to teeny tiny dc wheelchair next to front door and heavily hint that we were being very quiet because dc is asleep. Hoped that would do it. Nope, but had contact details now from girl I met who told me she and her flatmates owned the flat, cut to the following weekend and I texted her at 1am to say my 3yo has now been up for 2 hrs so please turn off music thanks. No answer, music went off then back on quieter a little later, until after 3am. Got a message the next day apologising, she wasn't there and would ask flatmates to keep it down in future. I asked her to please come for coffee (so I can have a civil shut it type chat) and gave a couple of different times, no answer, contact stopped.

So next party I called 101, no one showed. Next party I called 101 and really insisted they come over. They did, twice, because party goers smoking outside saw them coming so when upstairs heard my door go they all went really quiet, then cheered once the noise team left (they had heard the party coming up the street anyway so went around the block and then logged it). When the noise team did go up and ask for the party to move on the students refused on account of they were going out in an hour anyway?!? They did go out an hour later (1am) but not before stamping repeatedly on the floor whilst yelling 'fuck you fuck you' all the way around the flat and into the street, really intimidating. And that was that, just advised to keep logging complaints.

The guy in the flat above theirs is the unofficial factor for the stair and called me about some repairs, whilst talking I find he is also bothered by the noise, though not quite as bad, and the rest of the neighbours in the stair are narked by the front door banging and stair noise etc.

Turns out it is a student flat upstairs from me and the flat is owned by the mother of the girl I met not the people living there, we all think maybe 4 or 5 people live there, which is more in one flat than all the other flats put together. There is no landlord listing or HMO license or anything, not familiar with the rules but it seems they consider themselves exempt. So I get the number for the owner but hesitate in calling because I figure it could go either way since I am calling a mother to complain about her child and I am not good at confrontation, hate it.

Following the noise team intervention the students up the ante by stamping, properly slamming their way about at all hours and frequently waking us all up. After a month of thinking I have no choice but to call owner I realise the plaster on my ceilings is cracked, in every single room and so I make the call.

Spoke to father first, who was mortified, then was called back by mother who was very apologetic, this year's lot of students are a lot younger than last year's phd students; any more parties and they are out etc etc. All good, and she is visitng the following week so will come and see the damage. And the only people who live there are her daughter and two others!

Between that conversation and the next, the tone completely changed and I was hearing noise from another flat perhaps, or they were good students who never went out drinking, I must be thinking of someone else !?! Oh and the party the team were called too was just a little dinner party with one or two guests. The factor guy also tried to have a chat with her and got the same line, total denial. Her answer to my cracked ceilings? Oh well I have seen worse !!!

Anyhoo all was good for a couple of weeks after her visit (which was to oversee floor sandings, she refused to consider carpeting, and also swapping a same size bedroom with a sitting room so that their sitting room is not above a bedroom because their bedroom is carpeted so no compromise whatsoever). I was told to contact owner directly and not council noise team in future.

Then last weekend we had a return to evening stampathons resulting in me texting owner at 10pm sun eve to ask that the students please stop banging around because dc was ill from 4th disturbed night in a row. The phone went upstairs immediately and then all quietened down so I went to sleep and was woken later by her ringing me at almost 1am to say she had just received my text and had spoken to the students and woken them up so ~I must be sensitive to noise and hearing it from another flat ! There were no more visitors or music or anything that could be causing a problem and obviously the students were just walking around and being as quiet as they could, blah blah blah. This went on for a bit with her totally trying to gaslight me into thinking I have a crazy imagination, lucky I was tired or the conversation would have ended very abruptly, as it was I just said mhhmm a lot and got off as soon as I could. She did relent and give me their landline to call them if they are being noisy.

Now this evening guests arrived upstairs at 1130pm, waking dc, and left about 1am when I started banging about flushing loo etc really noisily to make them realise we are awake and fuck the actual fuck off which they did eventually in staged groups, thinking they were being sneaky but the drunk high heels on wooden floors and hysterical laughter outside the front door as they scarpered kind of gives the game away, no ?

I considered calling them but figure there is no point, they have no intention of stopping this and anytime I try to communicate the situation just gets worse and I can't be bothered with being woken up repeatedly whilst they try to get even or whatever it is they are doing.

I will move , (I rent and the flat and other neighbours are lovely), but it won't be immediate and I need a short term solution. I am sure owner told me initially they were finished in june and there would be a new tenant but when I last spoke to her that seemed to change to september and I really don't think she can expect us all to put up with this crap until then, also I fucking object to being called a liar, (as does neighbour two up) because owner has to believe what students say and can't we see that ( no I fucking can't they are overgrown nocturnal teenagers with no morals), AIBU?

And congrats if you made it this far , I feel a bit better now I wrote it all down!

[AlpacaLypse]

cheers for the because yes that's an epic OP!

Are you keeping a diary of the disturbances? Because despite what anyone else might say, it IS a noise abatement issue.

[Dec2013mummy]

No yanbu. I don't really have any advice but that sounds truely awful. I also can't believe the responce (or lack of it) from the council. Everyone has a right to peace in their own home.
Really sorry you're having to deal with this.

[feathermucker]

I'm sorry, I have no practical advice, but I know how soul destroying noisy neighbours can be, so I have sympathy in bucketloads!

[oohdaddypig]

I just wanted to offer sympathy, as I have lived in a variety of noisy abodes! I have also been a student and would have been mortified to have caused distress this way.

Have you tried your current landlord? Explain you are about to give notice due to the suits upstairs? Current landlord won't want to lose a good tenant and might have a word with owners.

Could you also try to speak to students during day and explain your predicament?

Poor you - it's very stressful hope you can move out ASAP if it doesn't improve

[McFox]

Bloody hell, no wonder you had to get that all out!

Tell the mother to go fuck herself and ring the police/noise abatement team every single time it happens. Every one. Also write to them detailing incidents (so keep a diary) and they'll soon become helpful.

I lived above, but on the other side from (IYSWIM) a bar several years ago and it soon transpired that the flat next to mine was the party flat got the pub regulars, and that when the pub shut, it all just moved upstairs and often just into the stairs, including people leaning against my front door smoking and drinking (one got the fright if her life when I quickly opened it, she fell into my flat and I went ballistic at her!).

Anyway, that's what it took for the council to do something about it. I called them constantly, and wrote down everything that was happening. It must have really pissed them off and they ended up installing noise monitors in my flat - and led to them evicting the apparent tenant (a pub regular) which really put a stop to it.

If they keep pissing you off and it's affecting your family's health, you need to tell the council/police/useless parent landlord that - and get angry!!

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Sympathies. They sound like disgusting selfish bastards.

[MoanyOldTiredMum]

Thank you so much, I am so shit at confrontational stuff and need a kick up the backside to be pro-active about this.

I have repeatedly put off going to speak to the students face to face because I am a big wimp and I feel like I will just cry or something humiliating like that. Owner did tell me that students can hear dc cry so I can't actually comprehend how they can continue with this crap when they can hear the effects iyswim?

I will log and call council but owner will never believe us, have considered putting a camera on the door so she can see what time they come and go at or recording noise but I reckon that would be explained away too and am unsure of the legalities. Twats.

[PrincessBabyCat]

Hmm.. The only experience I've had with this was when me and DH were in college and childless. We turned our music way up, opened the windows and blasted it to make a point. A few other neighbors joined in. Then the music all stopped and we all sat there giggling. They got the point and didn't do it again.

I'd just keep calling 101 about it. Keep it persistent so they have logs. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that. Basically just make it a pain in the ass for everyone to party. Also, can you use your phone to make a video so you can show the mother what's going on? I'm sure she'd be unhappy to see her little angel was partying instead of studying.

[Greydog]

Can you speak to the college/uni they are at? hint you are going to the press to complain about yobbish students?

[squoosh]

'Tell the mother to go fuck herself and ring the police/noise abatement team every single time it happens. Every one. Also write to them detailing incidents (so keep a diary) and they'll soon become helpful.'

This is exactly what I'd do. Keep phoning 101. Every.Single.Time.

At the moment you are being bullied. Do not tolerate this, fight fire with fire. It makes no difference that they own their flay and you rent. They are being anti-social cunts and you need to teach them that you will not just back off.

[MoanyOldTiredMum]

Thanks, maybe I can start my log here, someone came in at 3am then someone else at 316am then there was a lot of pacing about etc and now they seem to have finally settled down so I will try to get some sleep.

Plus they all get taxis, so that's noisier and makes me wonder because I was a poor student who had to walk everywhere! Often there is a taxi drop someone off, wait, they run in, clatter about getting whatever and wake dc, run back out get in the taxi which restarts its engine and off again - wakes me up whereas passing cars do not register in my sleep brain.

Daughter student is a final year medical student who is about to graduate I think and seems to spend a lot of time off adventuring so I don't know if the problem is just the other two and their other halves who obviously live there most of the time too...

[MoanyOldTiredMum]

although she did totally lie about who owned the flat and ignore frightfully polite communication request

[Chottie]

This is just such selfish entitled behaviour. I don't understand the mother at all. I'm the DM of adult DC and I would be motified.

Have you looked on your local council's website to see if there is an advice / info box? Just to make sure that you are doing everything and logging incidents correctly? Can you get together with your neighbours and put a group complaint into the council (and copy in mother, so she realises you mean business?).

I have huge sympathy too, my ex neighbour used to go away on holiday and leave his son at home and there were awful drunken parties in the garden, with foul language and thrown beer cans and bottles. It was the pits.

[kickassangel]

You owe these people nothing and your landlord will be mighty pissed off at havin to replaster the ceilings. Report everything and record any time they are stomping and causing cracks. Also keep a record if how many people appear to be living there. I think you should get your landlord involved. If I owned your flat I would be using every legal avenue available. Not only are they damaging the ceilings but they are also possibly going to cause loss if income to your landlord.

Tbh they should probably be getting visits from the police.

[springbabydays]

You poor thing. Sounds like hell. What does your landlord/landlady think about the cracked ceilings?

[MoanyOldTiredMum]

They seem to think if there is no music on then it is all ok but this is a really old building so it probably doesn't take much for small sound to carry into big sound and I just don't know if they realise how loud it is downstairs if you are clattering about on wooden floors upstairs. 4 or 5 people in becomes noise in every room, add a few friends and some jumping about and you have a problem. Also the whole building vibrates when people are walking about so you can imagine how that is, like sleeping in an earthquake zone. They can set off motion activated toys so have had to turn them all off!

I don't care how much noise they make during the day, but above dc's bedroom past 8 or 9pm and everywhere from 11pm should be quiet as far as I am concerned, until at least 630am every day, even friday!

Forgot to say I was woken by a taxi drop off a 345am yesterday too, been a long day and I will be useless tomorrow.

What worries me is that term is ending so they will have even less to get up for now, they are really quiet during the day!

[MoanyOldTiredMum]

I think the stamping is happening sober not just drunk, it is all the time on and off, really random. Last sat at 1am dc had a bit of sleep apnoea and was upset, cue stamping from his room across towards mine, like they were waking me up, except I was already in dc's room with my duvet keeping an eye, it's fucking weird. Also I am wary of attributing cause to other people's actions, I have no idea what they are thinking and am pretty sure I was a tube at that age too, I wouldn't have stamped though.

One of the reasons I have been hesitant to complain is that dc does have trouble at night and cries and I wasn't sure if that was a problem but other neighbours all say it is fine and owner said the students nearest can hear but are not disturbed by the crying.

Noise complaints team said background traffic noise could be an issue but I don't notice that much because it is totally different happeing over your head. Also from about 1am to 6am there is zero traffic which is why taxi drop offs sound so noisy I think, then door shutting, heels on stairs etc,

[chipshop]

I had this when I lived in a city centre flat. Took us months to get them out but we did.

You need to hammer the council on this. Phone them every time it happens. You need to fill in one of those diaries asap and get them out with their noise equipment.

Call the police every time too. And if you suspect drugs, in our case the place stank of weed, mention that you think it's a drugs den. Every time. Our cops came out a few times to raid their apartment.

We also had a bit of abuse at the entrance as we refused to let unknown skanks in to enjoy the party and they tried to force entry past us. I called the police about that too.

We also enjoyed hammering on their door before we went to work to wake them up.

Oh and tell the mum you're planning to call the local rag or one of those nightmare neighbour shows.

Utter twats. I really sympathise.

[RamonatheMisunderstood]

Do you know which university they are at? Dh and I experienced similar when we were students with the students upstairs. We made an official complaint to the university and the ringleader ended up with an official reprimand on her record. It meant that any more complaints would have prevented her from graduating. Ultimately though we did move as I was pregnant and the noise and stress was too much. I do feel for you.

[ilovecolinfirth]

Oh, loads and loads of sympathy! I experienced similar when I was doing my teaching qualification. I lived alone in a one bedroom flat, and I had 2 students living above me. The noise was constant, day and night. Windows would be open all year round blasting out music. I remember knocking on their door one night to ask them to turn it down. I was ignored, but then they all congregated outside my window banging on it. I was terrified!

At least I didn't have children, so I recognise that your situation is a lot worse. You and your family have the right to feel safe, and having the opportunity to sleep is a basic human right. Please please log it all. Ignore the mother, go to the police. I would be horrified if my children behaved in this manner.

From my experience, medical students don't usually have the best reputation for behaviour.

Good luck. X

[lizzzyyliveson]

Any idea which University they are studying at? If you know the name of the student you can e-mail with a complaint about anti-social behaviour. They are taking this issue more seriously now.

[ilovecolinfirth]

When I say all, I mean the many many people turning up at their 3-4 a week parties