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to think that DD needs to stop crapping her pants?

(127 Posts)
brdgrl Mon 19-May-14 21:52:54

Every night. EVERY night.
She's almost 4. She has been toilet trained for a year.
Every night.
I sit her on toilet. She insists she doesn't need to and can't go.
I give up eventually and put her to bed. She promises, again, to call me if she needs the toilet. Time passes. Sometimes I check in every so often, but it is always the same - nope, can't go, I'll tell you when I am ready.

Then....she calls. I go. She has not only had a poo, but has undressed herself and tried to clean it up. I spend next twenty minutes cleaning up poo. Tonight I cleaned poo off the wall, off her, her pjs, her sheets, a dish towel that she'd used to try and wipe herself (ok, that one I just threw in the bin).

She gets rash. That makes her try to hold it.

She is not asleep when this happens; in fact, she can't fall asleep until afterwards.

I try not to be too cross, so as to make her more anxious about it and maybe make things worse - she gets anxious about me being cross - but I want her to know it has to stop.

Have tried a reward chart - this has worked with her for everything else so far - no luck.

Every. single. night.

She completely understands. But she doesn't seem able to stop this habit.

cerealqueen Mon 19-May-14 22:26:23

I would definitely have the potty in the bedroom and see how that goes for a few nights.

brdgrl Mon 19-May-14 22:27:47

She always has water in her room at bedtime. Her diet is pretty healthy. We moved house recently - she hasn't been upset about that and in fact has seemed pretty thrilled (much bigger room now!) but it has messed up her routines ever since. She is a pretty happy kid, but I know she picks up on it when I am stressed out or unhappy and it makes her anxious - that's what I mean, I try really hard not to show her that I am bothered. But she can tell I know.

Haggisfish3 Mon 19-May-14 22:28:15

Another Movicol advocate here!

brdgrl Mon 19-May-14 22:29:17

then they lose the sensation of the splinter muscles.
I think that well could be what's happening.

OK. Making dr appt. And putting wee potty in her room for a few nights.

brdgrl Mon 19-May-14 22:29:49

...and looking up Movicol!

SchnitzelVonKrumm Mon 19-May-14 22:31:47

Was going to say the same about constipation and impaction. My DD had also used to sit on the toilet before bed then poo in her pull-up - basically the only time she was relaxed enough to pass anything substantial was when she was very sleepy and in bed. She also used to try to clear it up herself sad. Please don't be cross, and take her to the doctor.
Be warned it can take a long time to resolve: DD was on Movicol (a maintenance dose) for three years.

gimcrack Mon 19-May-14 22:32:15

Poor little girl and poor you. If she is already in pull-ups, then you need go reassure her. She is trying to clear up because she is trying to help you. Reassure her that it is ok and you are happy (as opposed to grossed out) to help her. Sounds to me as though there is something else going on - it's not her doing a dirty protest.

happyyonisleepyyoni Mon 19-May-14 22:33:26

How long are you letting her sit on the loo for? Maybe try a distraction, with my DD I just sat her there with Ben and Holly on the iPad, she was so engrossed that she forgot to hold in the poo. Took about 20 minutes but Once we had one success it became much easier.

OHforDUCKScake Mon 19-May-14 22:34:42

Yy to Movicol. My son was constipated, one poo really hurt and he feared going again. It went on for ages, it was awful watching the stress and panic when he needed to go or was going. sad

Movicol can take a while but so be it, as far as I know its a nice safe thing for them to take and has great success.

SchnitzelVonKrumm Mon 19-May-14 22:34:47

DH especially used to get very frustrated with our DD because she'd poo herself and then say "I didn't know" that she needed to poo. But she literally didn't, poor poppet.

SchnitzelVonKrumm Mon 19-May-14 22:36:05

Yes, Movicol isn't absorbed by the body, you could basically take it forever without side effects.

EverythingsDozy Mon 19-May-14 22:39:30

If she has a poo rash on her bottom then perhaps putting her on the toilet, she refuses to go, try putting a barrier cream on, then pants. Hopefully if she does a poo in her pants then the barrier cream will prevent rash?

I don't know if this will help but it did with my DD. We told her that poo that goes in the toilet goes on an adventure blush It meets up with mummy's poo and daddy's poo and cousin Xs poo and they all go on an adventure down the pipes! Poo that goes in pants does not go on such an adventure! grin

ophiotaurus Mon 19-May-14 22:42:51

Does she have cream on as a barrier to stop the rash for the nighttime poo? If you put a good layer of sudocream on before bed as a barrier it would stop the poo actually touching her skin and irritating her rash.
Obviously this won't help the underlying issue but could help her be in less discomfort?

When DS1 had really bad nappy rash we were prescribed timodene (sp?) which really cleared it up.

ILickPicnMix Mon 19-May-14 22:44:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

randomAXEofkindness Mon 19-May-14 22:50:06

Imagining your dd trying to clean herself up brought tears to my eyes.

she calls me in after the Event - but not before. If I try to get in there first, she'll just hold out.

I think that this, and the fact that she has tried to clean it up herself, points towards this being an anxiety issue. You have said several times that you try not to be cross. I think you already know that you do not have any leeway to show even a smidgen of disapproval of her over this. A lot of damage has been done, and it is up to you to sort it out. If I were you, I wouldn't be looking at how I was going to change her, I'd be looking at how I was going to change myself.

When your attitude changes, she'll feel better, and this hopefully won't happen anymore.

brdgrl Mon 19-May-14 22:53:00

Yes, Movicol isn't absorbed by the body, you could basically take it forever without side effects.
Good - the lactulose had lots of scary warnings on it!

I try to keep her on the toilet longer, but it has become one of Those Things - she knows what's going on and won't have it.
We had timodene before, that was what the dr gave us back last autumn.

Yes, I should be putting the Sudocrem on after she wees to make the barrier. Don't know why I wasn't thinking of that. I think because it was not an issue for so long - she seemed to be toilet trained completely and we were expecting to have her out of pull-ups at night any minute, and there weren't these nighttime stealth poos - so I haven't dealt with it well. I have only recently gone to work full-time and DH is doing more of the child-care and I am stressed out all the time. I feel like I could have handled this so much better a year ago, and now I don't even think of the simplest solutions. IABU!

brdgrl Mon 19-May-14 22:54:49

Imagining your dd trying to clean herself up brought tears to my eyes. I know, me too. sad

* A lot of damage has been done, and it is up to you to sort it out. If I were you, I wouldn't be looking at how I was going to change her, I'd be looking at how I was going to change myself. *
Point taken.

brdgrl Mon 19-May-14 22:57:40

I don't want anyone to think I am shouting at her or trying to shame her about it. I know my thread title is a bit cross-sounding too, but I was trying to poke fun at myself.

BOFster Mon 19-May-14 23:01:50

Don't feel guilty, this is nobody's fault, it's just One Of Those Things, and it won't last forever. Going to the GP is an excellent move, and ask for a referral to the continence service- they are the real experts, and they will help you. Chin up!

brdgrl Mon 19-May-14 23:02:47

Thank you, BOFster.

BOFster Mon 19-May-14 23:09:57

Oh, and get some metanium cream- it's the cat's pyjamas of barrier creams, and you could get hold of some over the counter tomorrow. I have loooooong experience of these things, having a child with SN who wasn't fully trained for years. But don't get me started on my poo anecdotes grin

SchnitzelVonKrumm Mon 19-May-14 23:11:04

Be kind with her and firm with the GP grin. It's usually fairly easy to resolve, even if it takes time. Also, even little children are reassured by a diagnosis that says, it's one of those things, it's not your fault. Don't underestimate how anxious it may be making her.

clairewitchproject Mon 19-May-14 23:23:17

My DS (now 7, sorry) has always had poo issues...just with you saying she gets a rash instantly, I wonder if there could be some food intolerance? My DS has fewer accidents if we avoid lactose and he's being tested for coeliac as there is lots in the family. He usually gets to the loo nowadays but usually with very little warning and things can be pretty explosive. Is that a possibility?

DenzelWashington Mon 19-May-14 23:23:53

Another thing to try: wash her bottom with aqueous cream rather than soap. Much gentler on the skin, could help prevent rashes etc.

VanGogh Tue 20-May-14 00:23:08

Support her feet on the toilet too so they're not dangling which causes more muscle tension IYSWIM. Does she have a stepping stool or anything you can use so she's sitting with her feet up and comfortable?

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