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social inclusion

(25 Posts)
x2boys Sun 11-May-14 22:43:41

There was a thread earlier about ukip I think I came across misinterpreted my son is four on Friday he is autistic with learning disabilities and he has a rarechromosone disorder thought to have caused his difficulties one of ukpis policy's as I interpreted it was to have more special schools .Personally I don't think there are not enough special schools social inclusion is all well and good but not when schools are deliberately excluding pupils becausebof their challenging behavior due to their additional needs maybe mainstream schools needs more training or maybe there needs to be more special schools ,whatever social inclusion does not always work and needs to be addressed.

Impatientismymiddlename Sun 11-May-14 22:49:34

Special schools are needed for children that need very specialist environments to learn in. Most children with mild or moderate learning difficulties can learn very well in mainstream schools. The fact that some mainstream schools are failing children with mild and moderate needs is due to the fact that they need retraining and more resources. I have a child who attends a special school and there is no doubt that he and the other children at his school need to be in that very specialist environment and that an influx of children with lesser needs would be harmful to them.
A child with ASD and severe learning disabilities would already qualify for a place at a special school so I don't see how UKIP would help children like your son.

Sirzy Sun 11-May-14 22:52:02

The problem is at the moment in schools (and society as a whole) what is said to be 'inclusive' schools is actually schools whereby pupils with additional needs are integrated into the classroom but generally they are expected to fit in with the class/school rather than schools having the flexibilty in adapt to the needs of each pupil and be fully inclusive.

Schools aren't allowed to exclude pupils because of behaviour that is a result of their diagnosed additional needs (not saying it doesn't happen but they are on dodgey ground if they do)

WorraLiberty Sun 11-May-14 22:52:23

Christ what's with all the UKIP threads?

UKIP and the word 'inclusion' go together like chalk and cheese

They're not exactly a tolerant bunch

deakymom Sun 11-May-14 22:55:34

ukip will promise to help your son so will all the other parties the point is all the other parties have had a crack at running the country and have failed children would ukip? (not planning on voting that way but im just saying what if??)

there is a special school by me it is oversubscribed many children end up at home with mom and dad because there is little or no options for them unless mom/dad etc drive and can afford to go out of area one lady didnt get in then a place opened up she rang all her friends from the special needs group to celebrate and found out a child had died that was the space she got now she feels like crap......................

x2boys Sun 11-May-14 22:55:51

Its not really about ukip as such its just their policies say more special schools are needed which I agree with I hope ds 2 will attend special school because he will not cope with mainstream I amin know way saying ukip have the right policies just that in some cases social inclusion doesn't really work .

Sirzy Sun 11-May-14 22:58:21

My worry with ukip wanting more special schools is why are they saying that? Some of the previous things their members have come out with make me worry for them it would be back to the old "out of sight out of mind" type attitude rather than what is actually best for the child

Fram Sun 11-May-14 23:00:54

I agree with sirzy- more special schools to syphon off those seen as less desireable and so others in society do not have to see them or interact with them! angry

You know- like institutions from 100 years ago, basically.

x2boys Sun 11-May-14 23:03:48

Well yes sirzy and no out of sight out of mind is not a good policy every person has a right to a decent life but at present I am feeling very letdownby mainstream its as though they made up there mind about my son last September and he will only be four this week how is that inclusive!

tabulahrasa Sun 11-May-14 23:04:15

The problem with UKIP and special schools is that it's not at all about meeting the needs of children and just about removing them, they want to send children with disabilities into special schools and then when they become adults into 'congregate communities'.

That's not about what is the best way to provide SEN provision, but about getting people with disabilities segregated.

TheFarceAndTheSpurious Sun 11-May-14 23:05:09

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

callamia Sun 11-May-14 23:06:49

I wouldn't trust any member of UKIP to have the first idea about education policy. Special schools definitely have a place in our education system, but a well-managed and resourced integration strategy is also important for both social and academic inclusion. When it's done well, inclusion can really benefit the academic outcomes and w-being of (many) children with SEN. However, it's certainly true that many schools feel under-equipped to manage this. Is the answer to have more special schools? Or to better equip mainstream with specialist units etc?

Some children need a highly specialist education, and a distinct school might be best for this - but I'm not imagining that this understanding is at the root of a UKIP policy. It's probably more about making sure mainstream kids aren't disadvantaged by having SEN peers.

Sirzy Sun 11-May-14 23:09:24

I think "additionally resourced bases" attached to main steam schools are ideal for a lot with moderate levels of additional needs as they allow for them to get the more specific education for what they require whilst still being a part of the wider school community and not being iscolated from typically developing (I hate that phase) peers.

Special schools without doubt are fantastic for a lot of pupils with severe leaning difficulties/disabilities but I do think it is right that they aren't the first choice and the ideal should be for a child to be able to attend a mainstream school with the support they need to allow that to happen.

x2boys Sun 11-May-14 23:11:19

Well I would think callamia that mainstream schools need more support with children with sen but that needs more funding my real point is that children with. Sen are being failed and surely that is not right?

x2boys Sun 11-May-14 23:14:41

And I agree with you sirzy I would love to try my son in mainstream first but unfortunately from his nursery experience they have made it abundantly clear they do not want him its very upsetting and frustrating!

BackforGood Sun 11-May-14 23:23:59

I think every single person who knows the slightest thing about it, and lives in my Local Authority, would agree that a considerable number of extra places are needed in specialist provision however that does NOT mean it makes sense to vote UKIP.

By putting that in your OP you've stifled the chance of a debate around the provision of more special school places, I should think.

x2boys Sun 11-May-14 23:32:20

I am sorry back for good that was not my intention at all I am very new to this my son was only diagnosed sixmonths ago but I am really not happy about the way he has been treated and if this is typical of how mainstream treat children with sen than I certainly agree there needs to he more special school provision please feel free to point me in the right direction as I do not intend to start a political debate but just don't think the current system works for all!

Aspiringhuman Sun 11-May-14 23:38:58

While I think the provision of educational services to children with additional needs is substandard I wouldn't trust UKIP to be the one's to fix it. I get the impression that their aim is to return to the bad old days where those with special needs were locked away and it was pretended they did not exist. This is after all the party whose candidate proposed compulsory abortion when a problem was detected.

BackforGood Sun 11-May-14 23:39:07

Gosh - not at all... I was meaning to try to help (and agree with you about there not being enough provision) ... sorry if it didn't come across that way smile

You might get more advice and support over in Special Educational Needs or there is a whole area for Special Needs generally. I'm a bit touchy over lack of SEN places at the moment through knowing how many families are being let down, and not seeing any changes for the better to improve things over the last few years sad.

Sorry if I came across as snippy.

MrsWinnibago Sun 11-May-14 23:41:20

I also agree with Sirzy and think that the reason UKIP want more special schools is so that there are NO children with additional needs in mainstream schools. People like that only want the average to be included in society...they're racist, homophobic knobs....and that type never want social inclusion to include the disabled or learning disabled. They want to hide them away.

x2boys I'm sorry your DS isn't receiving enough help in his school...have you asked on the Mumsnet Special Needs board for advice? There are some brilliant and knowledgeable people on there.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 11-May-14 23:41:41

I wish there were more specialist Autistic schools, at my Dd Autistic school in Milton Keynes, there are children attending as far as Aylesbury, Bedford and Luton. My dd has ASD with developmental delay of 2 years, but cannot function in a noisy busy mainstream environment. Mainstream would not work for all children with An SN. They just do not have the resources or trained staff. Dd does not only learn academically, but it develops on her behaviour and social interaction using specialist techniques, a mainstream environment cannot provide.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 11-May-14 23:49:44

How inclusive will a mainstream environment be for a child with SN. Inclusion with exclusion, if my dd were to be taught in a mainstream environment, she more likely would be taught away from her peers for the majority of the time due to her needs. At least in her ss she is taught with her peers in the classroom environment

Icimoi Sun 11-May-14 23:51:06

I think there is obviously a case for both special schools and for children with SEN to be educated in the mainstream if that is what both they and their parents want. I also agree that we need more specialist schools, since currently children with SEN have to travel greater distances to such schools than children without such difficulties.

However, what is clear is that what UKIP plans to offer is not special schools in the sense we currently know them, but what they call congregate communities - i.e. not schools at all. In practice it appears that they simply want to shut those with SEN and disabilities away from the rest of society so that they can be out of sight out of mind. I find the thought of that absolutely chilling.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 11-May-14 23:53:44

I agree icemoi, and if that is there intention, that is absolutely disgusting, people with SN are a part of the community and should be within it. Dd school are preparing her to be a part of that community and hopefully an independent adult.

autumnsmum Mon 12-May-14 08:21:21

Resourced provisions in mainstream aren't alwAys the answer dd2 has autism. And Attends a special school . The unit was in a huge primary school with all the noise and crowds . I'm delighted she was offered a special school place . However I in no way support ukip

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