To be confused by the Halal meat thing.

[LEMmingaround]

I don't understand why this is a problem. 90% of the animals are stunned before they are killed anyway - so what is the problem?

I do think it should be labelled as there are some religeons (sihks i think) for who this would be a problem but people getting upset over halal meat served in subway/pizza express? REALLY? To me it just sounds like an excuse for prejudice. Those people quite happy to eat the meat from there tht is not halal and probably don't give a flying fuck what happened to the animals during their lives or at their slaughter. If you were tht worried about that sort of thing you would a) be vegetarian/vegan or b) only ever eat meat that you knew where it came from and that was treated properly. Am i being niave that thinking that having to respect and pray for an animal at slaughter (even if the slaughter is not pleasant) that they may well have good welfare standards? Most of the meat you get from TEsco comes from the EU and the standards don't meat the UK standards for living conditions.

[javotte]

I am concerned because a tax is paid on halal meat. I don't want to subsidise mosques.
I the case of beef, I am concerned because the contents of the cow's digestive tract often contaminate the meat when the throat is cut (because the oesophagus is cut too). In France, since halal meat has become prevalent (Muslims only eat a certain part of the animal, the rest is sold as "mainstream" meat), the number of children who die each year from e.coli has skyrocketed.
If I were a Christian, I would not be allowed to eat meat that was offered in sacrifice to a false God / idol.

[LEMmingaround]

You don't want to subsidise mosques? IF you were a christian (which i assume you aren't - i am) you would not be allowed to eat meat that was offered in sacrifice to a false god/idol? OK then

[rainbowfeet]

Thank you Javotte.. Very educational..

I don't want to come across as racist & I hope I don't but it's also the principal of the thing.. We are not a Muslim country & I am scared this is a slippery slope into losing our identity as a Christian nation.
I am not anti Muslim or any other demonization but I feel we should be given the choice .. If the majority of Non Muslims prefer to buy or have no issue buying Halal meat then we will see more of it in our shops but given the choice I'd rather not.

[clapofthunder]

I've never heard that a Christian cannot eat meat that has been used as a sacrifice to a God?

Prepared to be corrected however.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

as there are some religeons (sihks i think) for who this would be a problem

why is it OK for other religious people to be allowed to have issues with this, but atheists are bottom of the pile in MN eyes and are not allowed to be upset about it?

I want to know if any religion anywhere has played any part in my food, be it muslim, hindu or christian., I want choice.


Imagine if it turned out the pope had been blessing wine for decades, it would be a huge world wide out cry!

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

All I know is that the NZ lamb export industry, the vast majority of which ends up in the Middle East, decided Halal was quite compatible with good animal welfare/slaughter practices and therefore converted all their production to it in order to simplify several years ago. I am suspicious of the motives of those making it a 'big deal' in the news now.

[Nomama]

Well, as we have all been eating halal meat for years I don't think there is a problem. And yes, you have! Not only in the 'unclean' parts, as javotte says, but where there is a surplus halal meat enters the regular food chain, just as many of your ordinary cheap vegetables are the surplus, premium priced organic jobbies!

As I eat meat I should be concerned. However, having seen stunned and un-stunned animals in abattoirs, I am not. There seems to be no difference at all. And, having seen abattoirs back in the late 70s, I am perfectly happy that things are far more humane these days - in both methods.

Before there is any change surely there is a need for more, clear evidence on either side? Though the pro stunners do have the emotional high ground. Then, maybe, there will be no need for silly media hype and scaremongering and we can just get on with being people....

[LEMmingaround]

But why would you rather not? I am a catholic and my priest tells us we should accept and welcome other religeons. I am sorry but that sort of argument is a non-argument to me. Unless you have genuine welfare concerns (which i did) then what actual difference does it make to you if someone said a prayer to a god that you don't even believe in. It doesn't.

[LEMmingaround]

If you are an atheist, why would it matter if the bloody chicken had been worshipped and blessed its whole life? You don't believe in God so why would it offend you? it would just be words and mean nothing. Unless athiesm is a religeon now?

[LEMmingaround]

Nomama - thats a good post, thankyou. Cogito - i agree with you, the BNP will be behind it im sure :)

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

However, having seen stunned and un-stunned animals in abattoirs, I am not. There seems to be no difference at all

If this was the case why are VETS lobbying to stop non stunned slaughter...animals after all their field...and specialisation.

Its not really for anyone to tell anyone else how they should or should not feel, in your argument LEM then the other religions should not have a problem with eating Halaal or Kosher or any other religiously blessed meat.


I am a catholic and my priest tells us we should accept and welcome other religeons does your priest also tell you respect the views of atheists?

[LEMmingaround]

"Imagine if it turned out the pope had been blessing wine for decades, it would be a huge world wide out cry!" i would then consider it my moral duty to consume copious amounts of it!

[LEMmingaround]

Athiesm isn't a religeon though is it - so why would an atheist care, other than on welfare grounds.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

Yes YOU might LEM I think millions of others would take issue with it.

The catholic church is one of the most hated, after all, and the Pope and Rome seen as corrupt and rotten.....

[LEMmingaround]

indeed :)

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

LEM

Having a religous back ground I understand why people cling to their rituals, I also understand there is a need for religion and it gives people a purpose and comfort, I understand it matter to religious people.

I understand Muslims do not want to eat pork or eat non halaal meat.

I do not want Halaal banned.

I Just don't want to eat it, un wittingly.

If your finding it hard to understand anothers point of view I am not sure why and with what motives you started this thread...except to be goady perhaps?

[FrigginRexManningDay]

I doubt the cows/sheep care whether a special prayer is said to them before they are killed.
Christians can say Grace before meals to cancel out the muslimisation of their steak.

[cloggal]

YANBU - but finding the different opinions quite enlightening.

[TurboTheChicken]

Independent article

Whenever possible I will buy happy meat and would prefer Halal meat to be labelled so that I can make an informed choice. Any religion can pray over or bless anything I eat, I'm not bothered but if the animal suffers more than they need to I'd rather buy an alternative.

[sarahquilt]

Lovely sectarianism there about the catholic religion - really classy move.

[Nennypops]

As a died in the wool atheist, I really don't care in the least if someone has muttered some words addressed to a mythical being over my food. I don't believe that this genuinely concerns Christians either; halal meat is not offered up as a sacrifice, and Muslims do worship the same god, as I understand it.

I think the fuss about this is utterly hypocritical. There is in practice no difference in terms of animal welfare in relation to slaughtering methods, and when you look at intensive farming methods you have to wonder why people who accept that suddenly get so fussy about what happens at the end of an animal's life.

The reality is that most of the fuss is racist in origin, and fuelled by people who seem to have some sort of weird belief that they will "catch" Islam if they eat halal meat. Yet the same people tend to have no problem with the meat they eat in Indian restaurants.

[Nomama]

Knitted, I know. But there is not a lot (if any) unbiased research around. It makes perfect sense for the BVA to lobby for stunning. But without unbiased, gold standard research who knows if their perspective is the only valid one?

I also know that that holds an inevitable problem, who else would undertake such research? But, in other countries other opinions hold sway!

[Nomama]

I seriously like that last post Nennypops

[sparechange]

I think there is a huge lack of understanding, perpetuated both by the Daily Mail pitchfork waving, but also by the Muslim community defending non-stunned meat and their right to it.

The vast majority of meat slaughtered in this country is done on production lines that are near as dammit automated. Chickens are scooped up by their legs, hung upside down and stunned. They then pass over a spinning blade which kills them.

A while ago, some bright spark at the abattoirs realised they could play a tape of relevant holy words while all this was going on, and call the meat Halal.
This doesn't in any way impact on the animal welfare issues of cheap meat, and if you buy cheap meat in the supermarket, or eat in anywhere that uses 'catering quality' meat, you have to be prepared to accept this is how the animal died.

HOWEVER, the issues around halal meat should be focused on a small percentage of it that is killed without stunning the animals first. There are welfare issues around this, as flagged up by the veterinary chief earlier this year.

But the current hysteria is confusing the two (probably deliberately) and trying to give the impression that we are all being fed 'cruel meat' by the backdoor.

The reality is that the vast majority of catering meat is 'cruel meat' whether or not they heard a tannoy during their last minutes.

[Birdsighland]

Friggin, conversely Muslims could just as easily say prayers over non-halal meat. No one set of wishes (not need,as someone stated) trumps another (animal welfare and best practice issues aside). A tad glib.