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To think that if drs tell you, someone basically has no chance and to withdraw care, not to trust them

(88 Posts)
NewDawnNewDayNewLifeForMe Tue 01-Apr-14 21:35:00

After watching Louis Theroux and one born every min, it makes you think can we really put our trust in what drs say

On Louis there was some guy, they family where told he was basically Brian dead and to with draw care, suddenly after being in a coma for x amount if days I think about 35 or something he was talking walking knowing who was who etc, yet the drs had said he was brain dead
Then they started blaming it on each other
Oh it was the neurologists etc

Then on one born every min, a baby with serious lung problems
They parents where told they baby didn't have much hope before he was born, then when he was born after. He was in intensive care sometime and was asked to consider withdrawing care and there he was alive and well

Makes me think if anyone I know is on life support never allow the drs to turn the machines off as they really don't know for 100% fact

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Tue 01-Apr-14 21:39:33

He was not 'well'. There is a good chance he won't make it out of of babyhood.

If there is a 99% chance someone is beyond help, that means they could still make it, it's just unlikely. You just don't hear about the ones who didn't make it.

I find it this really quite thoughtless to people who have had to make incredibly difficult choice about future care for loved ones.

WillSingForCake Tue 01-Apr-14 21:40:53

My husband is an Intensive Care consultant so am admittedly very biased, but it is very very rare for them to say there's no hope & then the person goes on to survive.

NewDawnNewDayNewLifeForMe Tue 01-Apr-14 21:41:13

It's not Ment to be rude, as I've been in that situation before

The man that came out of the coma was definatly well

NewDawnNewDayNewLifeForMe Tue 01-Apr-14 21:42:20

If you refuse to withdraw care what happens, do the drs have to carry on with life support.
Would the hospital take you to court eventually so they can withdraw cRe without your permission

itsbetterthanabox Tue 01-Apr-14 21:43:30

Do we have the choice here like they do in USA? Do the nhs decide it is it up to families?

littleblackno Tue 01-Apr-14 21:44:16

Drs do not ever say that flippantly or without consideration. Yes there are times when the out come is different but that can happen in many many areas of medicine.
I don't think it's helpful to create a culture of mistrust in health professionals who usually do an excellent job.

AnotherFurry Tue 01-Apr-14 21:46:10

There will always be someone that defies all odds but it isn't helpful to give the majority false hope when it is hard to accept a horrible outcome sad

NewDawnNewDayNewLifeForMe Tue 01-Apr-14 21:46:27

The man in the coma, the family where trying to tell the drs they could see signs of life but the drs where not listening

TweenageAngst Tue 01-Apr-14 21:46:38

The doctor's did not say he was brain dead. They said based on the evidence they had he would most likely be in a persistent vegatative state. They are human some times they get it wrong. I have worked in ICU for a very long time and can count on one hand the number of miracles like the one depicted. It is incredibly rare.

mrsminiverscharlady Tue 01-Apr-14 21:48:04

In the UK it is legally up to the doctors to decide to withdraw treatment. However in practice it's very unusual to go against the family's wishes.

financialwizard Tue 01-Apr-14 21:48:07

I would always trust the doctors judgement in that circumstance. They are the experts, and frankly if it were me in a vegetative state I would rather my family did what the doctor felt best than 'live' in a vegetative state.

PortofinoRevisited Tue 01-Apr-14 21:48:27

I think doctors making the correct judgement does not make for good tv. And I speak as someone who adores Louis Theroux. And should I find myself in such an incapacitated state I would want to be switched off than to let my family suffer for an extended period.

Noyoucantwatchpeppapig Tue 01-Apr-14 21:49:13

I wouldn't want to be kept alive for years in a vegetative state. I wouldn't want my family to be tied to my bedside for years. So I would not want to be kept alive in that way unless there was a good chance of survival.
Doctors do get things wrong occasionally but using their extensive training and experience they are the best source of a patients prognosis and I would trust their opinion.

PoppySeed2014 Tue 01-Apr-14 21:49:55

Perhaps it's not a good idea to base your opinions on what you have understood from two television programmes rather than actual medical experts.

creampie Tue 01-Apr-14 21:50:55

It's not a family decision, it's a medical decision based on all the evidence available.

It would never be put into a family member's hands to decide when to withdraw care, that would be a horrible responsibility to give someone. However, the doctors do sit down and explain the decision and try to get a feel for what the person would have wanted in that situation, and what the family feel is best, and try to take that into account.

Northernlurker Tue 01-Apr-14 21:51:02

NHS staff aim to make these difficult decisions in conjunction with a families wishes.
I totally disagree with you OP. A lot of avoidable suffering is caused by families refusing to let go. Sometimes the unexpected happens - great. But mostly when an experience medical professional tells you it's time to say goodbye IT IS TIME and what's important then is the manner of the dying and the farewell.
I watched a programme a long time ago when a little girl with ongoing respiratory problems was bought in to hospital. Her consultant, who knew her well, did everything he could but finally was filmed saying to her parents that he thought she was going and that they should let her go because the interventions weren't working and were causing her distress. The parents agreed and they stopped. Then she got better - frankly miraculously. That doesn't mean he was wrong to say they should let her go. He was right. They just all benefited then from something unpredictable and wonderful. To continue to put her through the interventions though would have been wrong.
It's incredibly unhelpful actually to post as you have done OP. As a society we need to come to terms more with dying, with the fact that medicine cannot save everybody and that we are not immortal. Spouting guff about doctors not knowing for 100% is just destructive.

furlinedsheepskinjacket Tue 01-Apr-14 21:51:27

I believe where there's life there's hope

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 01-Apr-14 21:52:24

We'll of course everyone has the right to a second opinion and if you don't trust a dr then ask to see another. But these cases of people waking up are exrremely rare.

I don't think any dr would say there was no hop without being 99.9% sure.

Northernlurker Tue 01-Apr-14 21:59:04

Where there's life there's hope? Yes but there's also pain and distress and confusion.

travellingwilbury Tue 01-Apr-14 21:59:11

It works both ways , I was told in no uncertain terms that my son had a cold and would be fine .

He was dead within 12 hours .

All we have is the best info available but sometimes it will be very badly wrong . And other times it will be fabulously wrong !

Fayrazzled Tue 01-Apr-14 22:00:22

My Mum was in palliative care just 9 weeks ago. There are so many misconceptions out there about end-of-life processes and I have been very hurt at some of the questions from friends about what happened. Mum had been very poorly. The doctors recommended treatment be withdrawn to ease her suffering and let her die. She didn't have cancer, which people also assume, but she was very unwell. As her family (my dad, brother and me) what option did we have but to trust the doctors? We'd have done almost anything to keep Mum with us. We all truly loved her.

But because we loved her, we listened to the doctors, trusted their medical knowledge and judgment, and let her go in a a dignified and pain-free (I hope) way. We didn't feel we had another option and it is incredibly hurtful for people to suggest we suggest have fought harder for her, questioned the doctors more, etc etc. It is so painful for the families involved and no decisions are taken lightly, by anyone. I have to say, the care we received from all the medical and non-medical staff (including the cleaner) was wonderful- they really cared and looked after us (the grieving, distressed family) as much as they did Mum.

Fayrazzled Tue 01-Apr-14 22:04:26

Sorry, in my post above I said we would do almost anything to keep Mum with us. And that's right- almost anything. But we wouldn't have kept her alive to suffer. We felt that in letting her go, we would have to take on the pain of losing her rather than her continuing to suffer needlessly.

And actually, although the doctors consulted us, it was them that made the decision to withdraw treatment, not us. We just didn't disagree with them.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Tue 01-Apr-14 22:06:44

Fay I'm so sorry for your loss, but I'm glad your mum was treated with dignity and care. thanks

AnotherFurry Tue 01-Apr-14 22:08:56

Doctors are there to give you their medical opinion. Very few cases are 100% black or white but most are heavily swayed on way or another but for 99% of the time there will always be that 1%.

You abvu to say not to trust them as most sensible people will listen to their opinion and make their own decisions based on the circumstances involved.

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