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Should men should be prosecuted for paying for sex

(118 Posts)
ICanSeeTheSun Tue 25-Mar-14 19:26:30

On channel 4 news now.

I think they should.

There is also talk about legalising prostitution. Which in a way I think in a way it should because at least the women who does it would have more protection.

SolidGoldBrass Tue 25-Mar-14 21:09:17

The 'Swedish Model' isn't the magic feminist button that will make everything OK, you know. It doesn't even appear to work, let alone make sense

LRDtheFeministDragon Tue 25-Mar-14 21:11:16

It would be remarkable if it were a 'magic feminist button' wouldn't it? Seeing as how we struggle with access to magic feminism in general.

I do think this is an important point, that it's not like there's a society we know of where everything is rosy and no-one ever gets hurt.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SolidGoldBrass Tue 25-Mar-14 21:15:29

More on the failure of the Swedish model.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SaucyJack Tue 25-Mar-14 21:21:41

the 19 year old student who turned up shaking with fear because it was her first time, but she was so desperate for cash because of bad debts that she needed the money - but the guy was "nice" to her before he fucked her anyway, which apparently made him a nice guy)

What would you rather he'd done then? Walked away and left her to go bankrupt? Would that necessarily have been better than paying her for a service she gave of her own free will?

TheCunnyFuntIsGettingMarried Tue 25-Mar-14 21:23:34

This is probably a daft question, but I've never really paid much attention to prostitution etc. But what's the difference between prostitution and soliciting?

LRDtheFeministDragon Tue 25-Mar-14 21:24:08

I'd rather we didn't live in a society where a 19 year old faces that choice! Why is that not everyone's answer?

nickymanchester Tue 25-Mar-14 21:29:36

But what's the difference between prostitution and soliciting?

Basically, soliciting is standing on the street and approaching people to offer your services as a prostitute. Prostitution is paying for sex.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nickymanchester Tue 25-Mar-14 21:34:12

LRD The link I gave has information translated into English from the Swedish police website:-

LRDtheFeministDragon Tue 25-Mar-14 21:37:41

I couldn't see the bit about the UK? I may be being really slow here, sorry.

PasswordProtected Tue 25-Mar-14 21:41:01

Din't men already pay for sex when they marry?
Think about it...

Toadinthehole Tue 25-Mar-14 21:42:10

The Swedish model perverts the fundamentals of criminal law by creating a lopsided situation where one willing party to a commercial transaction is criminalised and the other isn't. It is like legalised entrapment.

If society believes sex shouldn't be sold, then both buyer and seller should be criminally liable. If society believes it is fine for sex to be sold, neither should be. And surely the better way to stop the mistreatment of sex workers is to properly enforce the laws relating to rape, slavery, mistreatment, and any such additional laws as may be required to keep sex workers safe. The rightness or wrongness of selling sex is a separate issue to the safety of sex workers. The Swedish model confuses the two.

Oh, and in these threads, NZ inevitably gets a mention as an example of successful decriminalisation of brothels. Fine- if you don't mind brothels on the high street and are happy to overlook the existence of large numbers of unlicenced 'establishments' that do a roaring trade as supply is outstripped by demand stimulated by legalisation.

NeoFaust Tue 25-Mar-14 21:44:49

So it would be legal for sex workers to offer sex, but illegal for anyone to actually agree? (I'm being careful with the pronouns as I assume you're not really a sexist)

Legalised entrapment? Conspiracy to commit a crime?

What a profoundly stupid concept, anyway. Makes a mockery of law and justice. Better to legalise, regulate, tax and educate. More resources for those wishing to leave, more protection for those do not and above all a society where selling sex is a choice, not a matter of survival.

nickymanchester Tue 25-Mar-14 21:46:56

LRD We were talking about the Swedish model and how there is no evidence that this has made any difference to prostitution in Sweden over the last 14 years

LRDtheFeministDragon Tue 25-Mar-14 21:49:15

You mentioned the UK ... that was all. I wanted to know the stats related to that, but it's not a big deal.

C3P0 Tue 25-Mar-14 21:51:21

I oppose criminalisation of anything that cannot be usefully managed through criminalisation. It's not called the oldest profession for nothing. It will never go away. The "war on drugs" is similarly futile.

TheCunnyFuntIsGettingMarried Tue 25-Mar-14 21:54:09

Ahh right, thank you for clarifying.

NoNoNoNoNoYabu Tue 25-Mar-14 21:57:30

No, I don't think men should be prosecuted.

TheGirlFromIpanema Tue 25-Mar-14 21:57:39

Password hmm
Its not the 1950's anymore. Just so we're clear.

OP, YANBU x 1000. If we criminalise the punters it won't go away but it will help to make it seem not ok iyswim.

This is one topic on MN that baffles me, what if your daughters end up out of work, down on their luck. Do posters still think its ok then?Honestly?

grovel Tue 25-Mar-14 22:09:26

NeoFaust is right.

Aside from the legalities, my DH knows an incredibly successful man with a phenomenal sex drive. This man knows he is incapable of fidelity and is unmarried. He has seven "girlfriends" (one for each night of the week). He pays them £300 per night (£16,000 each per year). Funnily enough, he checks that each of them discloses this income to HMRC. He's not too bothered by his sexual prowess becoming public - he just wouldn't want to be associated with tax evasion.

He's actually a nice enough man who doesn't want to make passes at other people's partners. I've got an uncomfortable feeling that this arrangement makes 8 people happy and contributes to the Exchequer.

Grennie Tue 25-Mar-14 22:09:44

I know many women who have been in the sex industry and talk honestly about the harsh reality. Some of the women I know get pretty angry at all of those who say it is fine for that to happen to otherw omen, when they would never in a million years want them or their daughters to be in this situation.

If you think a situation is okay for other women, but not you and your daughters, you are being hypocritical.

Branleuse Tue 25-Mar-14 22:12:31

no, its personal.

As long as a woman is there of her own choice, and receives her own money from it, and no trafficking or slavery is involved, then i think people should be able to have sex with each other legally

Grennie Tue 25-Mar-14 22:15:07

Also people see poverty as the issue that means women are in the sex industry. The reality is that is only part of the equation. If prostitution was just about poverty, we would also see lots of poor men being prostituted. The fact that men being prostituted are small numbers, is to do with our unequal society and how women are oppressed.

In terms of comment above about disabled men - nobody needs sex. Nobody has the right to use another human being to have their desires met. And I notice you talk about disabled men, but say nothing about disabled women.

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