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To feel more than horrified for this 2 year and the treatment by the NHS

(101 Posts)
diaimchlo Wed 12-Mar-14 18:43:06

Cannot believe this angry

NurseyWursey Wed 12-Mar-14 18:46:06

Well if more money was given to the NHS.. instead of hospitals being closed.

Paintyfingers Wed 12-Mar-14 18:48:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FuzzyWuzzywasaWoman Wed 12-Mar-14 18:48:52

I'm unsure what you expected them to do if there was no bed available. It's awful for the little boy but you can't just magic beds out of thin air. Sorry but you are bu.

ivykaty44 Wed 12-Mar-14 18:49:45

how many beds do you get to make sure a hospital never runs out of beds?

It isn't a case of more money for the NHS but better organisation in some areas money is shamefully wasted

the staff on the ground do a fab job but those away from the front line seem to wear blinkers and dark glasses

Gileswithachainsaw Wed 12-Mar-14 18:49:47

Of course it's horrific but beds can't be magicked out of thin air. If he was too unstable to transfer I'm
Not sure what else they could have done.

This is what it's come to with the nhs.

NurseyWursey Wed 12-Mar-14 18:52:07

It will only get worse now because of clause 119 sad

saintmerryweather Wed 12-Mar-14 18:54:33

Interesting that the hospital are denying knowing about it.

Sidge Wed 12-Mar-14 18:55:24

I imagine the nurses caring for him weren't too impressed either.

If there are no beds, there are no beds. He wasn't "denied" a bed - there were none available in the unit he needed to be seen on.

I don't know the hospital policy but giving the child a camp bed may not have been possible - it may have been that due to the young age of the child a camp bed was deemed potentially unsafe. It's not like the nursing staff fashioned the bed out of chairs, it was that there was no bed available and the parents 'made do' with the chairs they were seated on.

Of course making do isn't acceptable, but when beds are under pressure it isn't necessarily the fault of the clinical staff.

NurseyWursey Wed 12-Mar-14 18:56:03

Interesting that the hospital are denying knowing about it

I don't think it is. Hospital's are big places, if they asked the wrong people then...

ParsingFancy Wed 12-Mar-14 18:56:23

Er, I think people are shocked that NHS is so tight for beds that this happens, and is complaining about funding and management.

Not that frontline staff were meanies and Dumbledore didn't appear with a wand in A&E.


ohfourfoxache Wed 12-Mar-14 18:57:41

This is an awful story.

But I am not surprised in the least I'm afraid.

People have said for years that the NHS was adequately funded etc. Bullshit. The money that was thrown at the system was spent on management consultants and the like, with precious little getting to the front line.

Now it is even worse, especially in acute trusts.

And outcomes like this, kids being treated and left to sleep on chairs, are not unusual. Actually, it is not the worst I have heard by a long, long way.

Sidge Wed 12-Mar-14 18:58:09

saint it's probably that they knew nothing about it!

Parents complain to nurse.

Nurse says "sorry we have no beds, we'll get him into one as soon as we are able".

Bed is found as soon as it is free.

Complaint is made to hospital who know nothing because making a patient wait for a bed isn't necessarily deemed a critical incident.

diaimchlo Wed 12-Mar-14 18:58:30

As Paintyfingers said they could have provided the camp bed, having no sides is not good enough tbh.... neither did the chairs and they were higher than a camp bed would have been.

I know that beds cannot be magicked out of thin air, but common too much of the funding has been withdrawn out of the NHS and it's getting worse.

I am not in any way shape or form getting at the hospital personnel who work directly with the public, they are angels.

Well - as a former nurse, I agree with those who say that beds cannot be conjured up out of thin air. However, it ought to have been possible to make the lad more comfortable than he was. As the dad said, he was hot, and was sticking to the plastic of the chairs - it wouldn't have been too hard to fold up a blanket to go underneath him, and cover that with a sheet, to make it comfortable. That's what I would have done.

WooWooOwl Wed 12-Mar-14 19:00:05

It's a horrible story, but I'm not surprised. There are plenty of stories about adults who have received a complete lack of care while in hospital and of people who have to wait months for treatment they need.

In comparison, a child sleeping on chairs temporarily isn't that bad.

Stories about a lack of care are not any worse when they happen to children.

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog Wed 12-Mar-14 19:02:21

There is a much bigger picture re lack of beds.

Community support and funding has an impact on hospitals too.

Cuts to social care funding will delay discharges from hospitals as people wait for appropriate NH/RH home placements, home adaptations, care packages etc.

Its not always the fault of the NHS.

Very sad story which is becoming more common.

ginmakesitallok Wed 12-Mar-14 19:03:06

How is lack of funding/beds management's fault?? There's only so much money, everything has been cut to the bone, what would you stop spending money on??? Blame people who refuse to vote for parties who raise taxes. Oh, and it's going to get worse.

jacks365 Wed 12-Mar-14 19:04:10

The camp bed couldn't be provided due to health and safety rules but I can't understand why the parents didn't have him on one of their knees rather than a chair.

The comment about the hospital not knowing means that the parents went straight to the press rather than making a formal complaint to the hospital.

NurseyWursey Wed 12-Mar-14 19:04:25

A lot of our beds are taken up by elderly people who no longer need medical care. But we can't turf them out. Like Hotdog touched upon we're at the mercy of other factors.

BackOnlyBriefly Wed 12-Mar-14 19:04:31

I think a factor is letting it be managed by people who don't know what it's like on a ward. I can imagine some accountant working out average bed use per day over the year and reporting that average as how many beds are needed.

We've seen something similar in A&E. Someone reports adequate resources on paper and then is astounded when it won't work in the real world.

You can't say to someone who is suddenly sick or injured "Today? no sorry, you'll have to come back on a wednesday, we generally have free beds on a wednesday"

Fayrazzled Wed 12-Mar-14 19:04:38

I'm surprised at the number of posters who seem to think it is acceptable that a 2 year on a drip and with a blood infection was left on chairs. Of course it is not the fault of front line staff, but it is absolutely deplorable that in 21st century Britian, some parts of the the NHS are operating like the third world . It is totally not acceptable. I would have been furious had it been my child. Of course beds cannot be magic-ed out of thin air but the point is that the situation should never have arisen in the first place. The NHS has been mismanaged for decades.

drnoitall Wed 12-Mar-14 19:04:43

If their were no beds, couldn't a bed be borrowed from somewhere else?
It's awful that it happened I agree.
Nothing as had as this but when my ds was born there were no baby bed/plastic cot thingy. He was put on a pillow in a baby bath, on the floor. I could discharge myself and go to the nearest hospital if I wanted, 20 minutes away.
I accepted the baby bath, makeshift bed.

Northernlurker Wed 12-Mar-14 19:05:48

It is clear from the article that the parents have gone straight to the media rather than complaining to the hospital - which would allow a proper investigation to take place. That's why the hospital knows nothing at this point. It appears that the major issue is that the staff have become preoccupied with everything they couldn't do rather than trying to think of what they could.

Fayrazzled Wed 12-Mar-14 19:08:02

Nursey Wursey- beds in the paediatric department aren't being taken up by bed-blocking geriatrics.

The issue of bed-blocking is a big problem but I've seen it more from the other side- rather than being in hospital where they need to be, patients are being inappropriately discharged back to their own homes too soon, only to need readmittance to hospital further down the line which could have been avoided.

Many new PFI hospitals are operating on smaller bed numbers than the hospitals they replace.

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