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The Sport That Wants Children to Strangle Each Other

(38 Posts)
Andrew35 Sat 08-Mar-14 18:42:24

Hi Im a parent of 2 and a blogger on self defence and martial arts. Recently I wrote about a martial art where children as young as 4 are being taught to strangle each other. Im glad the vast majority of people seem to be against this however as I have only had feedback from within the martial arts world I am wondering if other parents feel this activity is harmless fun or very dangerous on a physical and emotional level. All views are welcome as I am doing a follow up article and would like a good balance of views.

However I will warn you in advance children as young as 4 are choking other children and also how to arm lock them.

What does the average parent think of this activity and would you like your child to play unsupervised with a child you knew could really hurt your son or daughter with techniques designed to kill?

[Link removed by MNHQ as we don't allow non Bloggers Network bloggers to post links on our talk boards]

softlysoftly Sat 08-Mar-14 18:48:27

I normally hate people linking to their own blogs as it is a clear click counter ploy, and as I see your shares are increasing rapidly then I suspect this may be the case here.

However Hell NO children at 4 don't have the awareness to understand that it stays in the safe managed ring, if they have a disagreement in the playground what to stop them using the tactics, it could be a disaster!

VoyageDeVerity Sat 08-Mar-14 18:49:11

That article and video made me want to vomit.

Those adults are fucking sick.

dementedma Sat 08-Mar-14 18:52:50

Those little girls are hardly more than babies!
Who the hell uses their little daughters like this?

EdithWeston Sat 08-Mar-14 18:56:57

What is the martial art in question?

My DC have done various junior programmes of accredited martial arts and nothing dangerous occurs and the coaches were very clear it was something to be done in training under supervision and not in the playground.

mercibucket Sat 08-Mar-14 19:00:43

in jiu jitsu this is only taught in adult classes

Andrew35 Sat 08-Mar-14 19:01:00

Hi to be honest the article shared in the martial arts community really well so Im not after that aspect or concerned in any way about the social shares of the post. I am however generally concerned about the whole concept of the sport.

sadly whilst the general martial arts community agrees its a bad idea on the whole, so many martial artists arent bothered and some running clubs actually think its a fantastic idea. I personally think its terrible and should be banned but I am very interested in the general views of the non martial arts type of person/ general parent.

To be honest I am a little stumped on how this activity should be dealt with, should the government or child NSPCC step in? Im not sure they could or would but the whole thing does seem right to me. All views are welcome as Im going to do more writing on the subject but not really sure where to go next with this.
Any ideas?

Andrew35 Sat 08-Mar-14 19:02:19

sorry last message meant to say that the whole thing doesnt seem right to me. It leaves me feeling sick to be honest as well and Im a very experienced martial artist

Chippednailvarnish Sat 08-Mar-14 19:03:17

What country was the clip you linked to filmed in?

mercibucket Sat 08-Mar-14 19:05:54

oh i see this is jiu jitsu, but brazilian. ok so imo it is a massively under-regulated sport with a lot of cowboy operators. this is absolutely not allowed at my japanese jiu jitsu classes. it is, obviously, massively dangerous. i would suggest all kids classes have to be run by qualified instructors with full insurance for starters.

softlysoftly Sat 08-Mar-14 19:07:31

Well to channel my mother "its not right something should be done"

But by whom i'm not sure? When I did martial arts many many moons ago you needed to be licensed, if that is the case still can't the licensing body do something? Set rules?

NoraRobertsismyguiltypleasure Sat 08-Mar-14 19:19:44

That video made me feel like crying. That poor little girl was made to continue fighting after crying three times! She clearly didn't want to be doing it.
I think young children learning martial arts is fine, but they should not be actually causing harm to others whilst doing so.

Andrew35 Sat 08-Mar-14 19:34:04

The sport is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu which is now global and the rules as is my understanding allow for chokes and armlocks from the age of 4. The clips are from the USA but the sport is practised in the UK as well. I did a fair amount of research prior to writing that article and to my knowledge it is the only sport/ martial art that actually allows children to choke and armlock in competition. Judo and others do not allow chokes and armlocks until after 16 years of age I believe

My personal issue really stems from the fact that there is no need to add chokes or locks to their child sport division. I asked people teaching it and I got a range of responses some abusive but generally nothing solid as to why it should be taught like that. The sport is unregulated but has a governing body that runs international competitions but that body sets the rules to allow it.

So whilst I personally dont agree with it I dont see what anyone can do about it.

Chippednailvarnish Sat 08-Mar-14 19:47:15

So you don't know for sure that this is actually being taught and practiced in the UK in the same way. What exactly are you wanting the NSPCC to do in that case?

But hey, you get to promote your article and garner opinion for your next one.

Ledare Sat 08-Mar-14 19:47:20

Jesus. That looks awful. No technique or discipline evident, it's just Fight Club for pre-schoolers.

Andrew35 Sat 08-Mar-14 19:59:38

Its being taught in the UK for definite there are videos on the web and child classes advertised in the uk

hippoinamudhole Sat 08-Mar-14 20:05:37

The British judo association don't allow strangles or armlocks in competition until the age of 16. This doesn't however mean they are not being taught from an earlier age.

The other two biggest judo associations in the uk do allow them from a much younger age

Andrew35 Sat 08-Mar-14 20:10:44

They might but ive never seen it in clubs Ive been to personally. As for the other 2 biggest, well the BJC dont allow 4 year olds to do it.

mercibucket Sat 08-Mar-14 20:16:09

armlocks and chokes/strangle holds are 2 different things. one might break a limb, the other can kill very very quickly

we dont do chokes/strangles with kids classes

frazmum Sat 08-Mar-14 21:24:34

Having watched many childrens BJJ classes where my children go it is very well taught, no 'cowboy' instructors. Respect and care of each other is more important than who wins. Unlike the football coach at after school club who let anything go, allowed boys to hurt each other and call each other names. All sports have responsible and irresponsible coaches and parents. Those 2 girls on your video should have been stopped regardless of what sport they were doing.

Andrew35 Sat 08-Mar-14 21:43:37

The facts remain quite simple. Why would anyone want their children to learn to strangle another child? As for the armlock comment 'oh its ok to break another childs limbs'

Again its a simple question that everyone in the bjj world ignores. Why teach a child a technique that can kill? Is it morally and ethically right? This is not about how the technique is taught but does a child need to learn this.

Its not even about the instructors this comes down to the aim of a sport. To cause another child to tap out or face being strangled to unconsciousness. or be in so much pain they have to tap out or face the arm being broken.

Child BJJ can and should exist like Judo does but without the arm locks and chokes. There is no reason why the sport cant exist without them. So the question still remains for those involved in the sport why teach children such techniques?

I personally shudder at the thought of a school yard scuffle turning into a serious injury or worse because a child doesnt know the boundaries between the dojo and the playground.

mercibucket Sat 08-Mar-14 21:54:15

no. i did not say it is ok to break another child's arm. i have no time for ridiculous drama queen accusations. i was simply pointing out that one move breaks an arm, another kills. to my mind, that makes the strangle holds more dangerous.

Andrew35 Sat 08-Mar-14 22:06:47

An arm being locked has to be put to the point of hyper extension where the child has to 'tap' out or an adult intervene otherwise an injury occurs and likely a broken arm.

so its teaching a child to have the ability to injure another child.

Interesting the issue of child safety is being a 'drama queen'. Just at which point does it become a drama? Chokes are being taught to kids along with arm locks all over the world. I find arm locks incredibly dangerous and whilst not life threatening would cause a child extreme pain I cant think of any reason why Id teach a child to arm lock another child.

Which again begs the question as to why teach a child that?

What can the child possibly gain from learning that?

hippoinamudhole Sat 08-Mar-14 22:09:56

I have been at judo competitions run by the BJC where children at the age of 5 have been using strangles and AJA competitions where at the age of 8 my son decided to try an arm lock because "everyone else was doing it"

I would allow juniors from the age of 13/14 to use arm locks/strangles so that it doesn't come as a shock at the age of 16 when in a competition one of these techniques are used on them.

In my experience competition players are much more gentle and apply armlocks and strangles slower than recreational players but I am now talking about adults

Andrew35 Sat 08-Mar-14 22:21:15

I dont have an issue with 13/14 year olds engaging in learning these techniques I think its a valid point you make. Even 11/12 might be ok but under 10's and certainly 5 year olds I really dont see the sense in this. But its adults doing the teaching and running the events.

I would be interested in hearing views from non martial arts parents.

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