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to wonder why parents of children who take them out for a day or two in term time are fined because it's not considered acceptable to miss a day at school but...

(72 Posts)
Supercosy Wed 19-Feb-14 08:35:16

the parents of children who are home educated are allowed to do largely what they like?

I'm not anti home schooling, have considered it myself and have friends who do it but I just don't understand this disparity. My friends who HE say they really do have very little interference from anyone at all, their children follow whichever schedule they fancy Yet it's considered wrong for parents to take their children out of school for a day or two even though the trip they are taking will most likely have educational value....certainly emotional value ifyswim.

I say this as a teacher myself. I really don't see much of an issue with parents taking the odd day or few days each year.

DescribeTheRuckus Wed 19-Feb-14 08:38:53

Parents who home educate do it off their own backs...they get no financial support from the State to educate their children, so they are largely able to do that how they see fit. Children in school are 'paid for' by the state, and therefore have to play by the state's rules.

DarlingGrace Wed 19-Feb-14 08:40:24

I was thinking about this yesterday. There is nothing enshrined in law that says a child has to attend school, but if the parent makes that choice then the child must be there come rain or shine. It really is nonsensical.

HoratiaDrelincourt Wed 19-Feb-14 08:40:39

Also, children who take time off school cause disruption to the rest of the class if they have to be caught up when they get back. A HE child doesn't have that effect.

Supercosy Wed 19-Feb-14 08:43:22

But how do they know what the HE child is doing Horatia, it seems like they have very little contact with anyone official. I do get the "paid for by the state" part Describe but, as Darling says, you don't have to to send your children to school and yet this rule suggests that not to, even for a day or two is against the law.

natwebb79 Wed 19-Feb-14 08:43:33

Because it causes disruption to my lessons when a student says 'I don't understand this because I wasn't here last lesson' and it hinders the learning of the rest of the class.

diddl Wed 19-Feb-14 08:49:00

"but if the parent makes that choice then the child must be there come rain or shine."

Because isn't that what you sign up for when you send your child to school?

That they will go in on the times/days set by the school unless ill?

The same as you agree to them wearing the uniform & abiding by the rules?

SwayingBranches Wed 19-Feb-14 08:51:30

Children are workers, like in a factory, the jobs and livelihoods of the people at the top depend upon their success. They are also being prepared for a lifetime as workers so it befits the government, who are in the pay of companies, for people to realise from an early age that they are owned by their employee and have to abide by ever more restrictive rules. It also ensures compliant adults who fear their children will lose their place or will "get in trouble" by having a "nasty letter" about attendance.

Look how more compliant people have become, the fear about "unauthorised" absences, the idea that parental decisions must be approved by the state is deeply ingrained now.

SwayingBranches Wed 19-Feb-14 08:55:50

And then in time it becomes a "moral" issue, so you're a bad parent/citizen if you do something with your child, like a week's holiday, that was perfectly acceptable a few years ago. And as time goes on it then becomes acceptable to report your friends and neighbours to the state for the transgression of the aforementioned holiday.

Supercosy Wed 19-Feb-14 08:56:07

Agree with those points, we do indeed "sign up for it" and so therefore to pick and choose is not on. The thing I get annoyed about is the fuss made about a child missing a day or two of school (not talking weeks) and the literature you are given about it affecting their education in a dire way. As a teacher I really don't think that is true. Yes, it is true for a child who misses several weeks but not the odd day.

Whereas home educated children do whatever their parents like, hardly anyone checks and noone really knows how much education they are receiving.

Supercosy Wed 19-Feb-14 08:58:13

I agree Swaying...I think it has gone too far.

SwayingBranches Wed 19-Feb-14 09:01:05

The answer is to fight back against the state. Home educators did and do.

Supercosy Wed 19-Feb-14 09:06:19

Do you HE Swaying? May I ask what were your main reasons. I'm not able to do it myself but this rule and the level of SATS pressure being applied to Dd at the moment has made me think about it alot.

natwebb79 Wed 19-Feb-14 09:07:49

if the child in question comes to me in advance asking for the work they will miss then it isn't quite so bad. It still gives me more work on top of a big enough workload mind. They rarely bother though.

TeamHank Wed 19-Feb-14 09:11:07

You sound a bit paranoid swaying!

It's never been acceptable to take your kids out of school to go on holiday, even when I was a kid.

If you said the occasional day was ok, how many occasional days would be acceptable? Where would u draw the line? Everyone knows the occasional day isn't going to make a big difference but the literature still has to make the point that attendance is important.

Home educate if its a problem!

TeamHank Wed 19-Feb-14 09:12:15

Nat, our HT specifically tells us not to provide work - if parents are choosing to remove the child why should we increase our own workload to help out?

Bonsoir Wed 19-Feb-14 09:14:30

When you enrol your DC at school you agree to a contract that has terms and conditions attached. One of those is regular attendance.

diddl Wed 19-Feb-14 09:14:33

"It's never been acceptable to take your kids out of school to go on holiday, even when I was a kid."

I thought that as well tbh, Hank

Perhaps schooling should be less days/hrs per week to allow for days out if wanted?

TeamHank Wed 19-Feb-14 09:15:49

Diddl, I don't think that would go down well with working parents!

Dominodonkey Wed 19-Feb-14 09:17:12

hank it has been acceptable in the past actually. I took 2 weeks off school for a family holiday every year (except gcse and 6th form) with the full permission of the head at a state primary and state grammar in the 80s/90s. So did lots of my friends.

diddl Wed 19-Feb-14 09:18:19

That doesn't make it acceptable, just doable!

wordfactory Wed 19-Feb-14 09:18:24

Education of a child is the responsibility of the parent - the law is clear on that.

How the parent undertakes that duty is up to them (within reason).

If a parent decides to use a school as one of their resources, they must be bound by the rules of that school, in much the same way that if we take our DC to the local pool we are bound by their rules.

Tailtwister Wed 19-Feb-14 09:18:32

If parents are home educating their child isn't part of a class with other children. Taking your child out of class during term time means the teacher has to spend time helping them catch up. This has an impact on all the other pupils in the class.

Bonsoir Wed 19-Feb-14 09:18:48

I have taken my DD out of school on two Friday afternoons recently. It really is exceptional - I never do this - but two extremely rare events meant we needed to travel on Friday afternoon. Both times I explained what they were to DD's class teacher and she was very understanding and made sure DD had all her homework etc.

Cases of force majeure occur in life. A family day out is very rarely a case of force majeure.

Dominodonkey Wed 19-Feb-14 09:18:49

But as a teacher, I totally agree about the work thing. Someone's choices should cause the teacher extra work.

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