to think that only people who worship Christ should have a church wedding or baptism

[HollyMiamiFLA]

And that those people who are not Christians but have a church wedding are just doing it because they want to be the centre of attention in a lovely white dress, to walk down the aisle with music playing and that all that stuff the vicar says about God etc is irrelevant because they don't actually believe it but they're going with the flow and it's traditional.

AIBU to think it's a facade - vicars go along with it because it keeps the church going, couples go along with it because it's tradition and they can ignore the religious stuff and true Christians probably get a bit annoyed but accept it?

[drivenfromdistraction]

I disagree. I think CofE is part of our culture and we have access to it whether we believe or not. Not everyone agrees, I know.

Also baptism is for the CHILD's benefit, not the adult's so it would be terrible to exclude a child because their parent wasn't a worshipper.

[manicinsomniac]

I don't know, I get your point but I think it's fine for people to do what they want to do really.

It makes a lot of money for the church and non Christian couples can have the sense of occasion and pretty photos that they want.

Many non Christian couples wouldn't want to marry in a church but if they do then each to their own. I can't imagine God minding so don't see why anybody should.

[KidLorneRoll]

Meh. I just don't understand why somebody who didn't believe in it would have a church wedding or especially a christening. If people want to though, and the church doesn't mind (as, let's face it, they do it for the £££) then why not?

[HollyMiamiFLA]

Didn't God say something about non believers in the 10 commandments?
False Idols and all that?

[diplodocus]

Based on that we also need to remove all religions references from our culture and completely de-link church and state. No state church schools, no religion in schools etc. We have a lot of Christianity imposed on us in everyday life, so based on that I don't see why we should be excluded from using their services if we so wish.

[HollyMiamiFLA]

"(as, let's face it, they do it for the £££)"

Indeed. Brings in the cash and maintains the local church.

[flowery]

YANBU. Very hypocritical to stand up in a church and make vows about God and religion if you don't believe in any of it.

[Helpyourself]

I disagree too. I believe and ha a church wedding. The priest used the sermon to give a swift basics in theology class. It was lovely and a nice counterbalance to the rest of the day.

[dollius]

Didn't Jesus also say "turn the other cheek?"
So, how about you get down of that very high horse of yours and start being a little kinder towards your neighbours.
You don't sound like a very nice Christian.

I agree with diplodocus. Divorce church and state and let's be done with it.

[Walkacrossthesand]

I was invited to a christening, once. The words of the baptism service include stern instructions to the godparents to ensure that the infant is 'raised in the eyes of the Lord' or some such, and that they themselves pledge to follow Gods path. The family concerned were not practising Christians, nor were the godparents, and there was much foot shuffling and exchanging of glances as they had to make those vows. As an atheist, I wouldn't do it.

[MsVestibule]

I'm a Christian and I'm pleased that a lot of people still feel it's important to celebrate the major events in their life in (births [well, christenings] marriages, deaths) in church.

There are a lot of alternatives now (naming ceremonies, civil weddings in lovely hotels, cremation or a humanist ceremonies) but that people still choose to celebrate them in a church says that it's still important to them, if only for cultural reasons.

[HollyMiamiFLA]

"Very hypocritical to stand up in a church and make vows about God and religion if you don't believe in any of it."

YY. If you make a vow about God, you should believe it.

[diplodocus]

By the way I chose not to have a church wedding or baptize my DDs, but where I live (rural area) have no realistic choice but to send them to a church primary (catchment school).

[dollius]

I think MsVestibule has a much better idea of what it is to be a Christian than does the OP.

[Slh122]

I'm getting my baby christened next month and neither me or DP are particularly big church goers. However, we were both christened and feel it's a nice way to celebrate our new arrival. We're having a party afterwards.

[HollyMiamiFLA]

MrsVestibule

It's nice - but isn't it hypocritical to pray, to make religious vows if you don't believe it.

[DipDabDabDip]

I didn't get married in a church as I don't believe in God and think it would be hypocritical of me.

[HollyMiamiFLA]

Slh122

Do you believe in God?

[ReallyTired]

I think its a bit arrogant to attempt to judge who is a "true Christian" and who isn't. Going to church does not make someone a christian.

I have no issue with someone who chooses to get married or have a funeral in church. I feel its good for the church to support people as they go through life changing experiences likes weddings or death of a loved one.

Weddings and funerals give income that go to help maintain pretty churches. In fact I would like the church of england to hire out its really pretty churches to humanists who want somewhere to pretty to meet but don't want a priest to lead their gathering. (Provided that they don't openly insult believers)

Infant baptism is a little different in that parents are making promises to bring the child up as a christian. I am a little bit on the fence on this one as I have misgivings about infant baptism in general. (My own daughter was baptised at three and half years old after she asked to be baptised.)

I am happy to have a service of thanksgiving for any baby whose parents want it. All children are a gift, whatever the beliefs of the parents.

[Seeline]

I have never understood why non-believers would have a church wedding. For me, the wording of hte service, and the fact the we were making our vows in front of God was very important.
Whilst I understand to a certain extent that CoE is seen to be the 'national' faith, there are many other Christian denominations in the UK where this isn't the case. Non- church goers seem happy to use their facilities too.
I haven't noticed Christianity being imposed on people - unless you count Christmas, and most people seem happy to go along with that. Similarly I haven't noticed many people demanding to go to work on Good Friday as they don't believe

[HollyMiamiFLA]

Or is it just nice to have a service in a church and we'll just say the God stuff without meaning it?

[DIYapprentice]

There are levels of belief though, aren't there?! Lots of people believe in Christ and God in a more abstract way. There are rather less true atheists than church non attenders.

You also forget about members of the extended family, sometimes you do this because the people you care about really want it.

And I say this as a staunch Christian and regular church attendee.

[TamerB]

I agree with MsVestibule and I am a Christian. The church is supposed to be all inclusive anyway and not a special club with people set on keeping people out.

[dollius]

Gosh Miami, you sound very cross about all this.
Perhaps you should welcome these newcomers into the fold instead of being so chippy about it?

[KidLorneRoll]

I don't thing it's hypocritical to get married in a church if you don't believe in it. It's just a building if you don't believe in God - often a very nice one and if the money from the wedding helps maintain it, then everyone wins.

Personally I agree that the sooner we completely separate church from state the better. Marriage should be a purely civil affair with the religious bit bolted on for those who want it, and the mess with civil partnerships can then be done away with.