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gggrrr childcare

(86 Posts)
MrsBucketxx Tue 11-Feb-14 07:44:23

Aibu to think nurseries and cm's seem to be the only profession, that takes money regardless if they have done any work that day.

Sick children yup you pay
Holidays yup you pay
They take a holiday you have to find childcare and pay again
You want a holiday you pay
Children at nursery when you use a cm you pay.

It seems to be the same across the board. Aibu to think this is wrong.

I am self employed and this would never hapoen in my own line of work

YoureBeingASillyBilly Tue 11-Feb-14 23:26:21

could end up

YoureBeingASillyBilly Tue 11-Feb-14 23:25:44

Other self employed people set their rates to allow them to take holiday. Some CMers do too but it usually means a higher hourly rate and couldnt end up costing more over the year. Those that dont set their rates higher to allow for holidays will charge for holidays otherwise they wont take them and will burn out. That's not what uou want in the person caring for your child. So whether you pay at the time of the holiday, or pay via the increased rate you will be paying for those holidays.

SingMoreWhenYoureWinning Tue 11-Feb-14 23:19:30

I have a cm for two ds's.

I can understand that a CM would still charge when the child is sick. Or when the family are on holiday or don't use the cm on an agreed day for any reason.

The one thing I have a problem with is CM's charging for their holidays.

My CM takes 4 weeks a year. She 'only' charges half price on these weeks.
Meaning that I have to pay 48 weeks of the year at normal rate, and 4 weeks of the year at time and a half as I have to use a temp CM.

Why? Other self-employed people don't get to charge their clients when they're out of the office.

I do feel it's really unfair. There's no alternative though, every cm I've looked into charges a minimum of half price for their holidays.

Mimishimi Tue 11-Feb-14 23:14:32

With all your grievances, the only one I agree with is charging for their own holidays. I think that should be worked into the hourly rate of when they do provide the care. The rest? Not unfair at all - they are not there to serve you at your whim. You are paying for the spot regardless of whether you feel like showing up that day or not. And like any other business, if you don't like it you can go and take your custom elsewhere.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 11-Feb-14 22:55:14

It goes up on your 21st birthday

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 11-Feb-14 22:54:43

Many of the staff at a nursery are under 18 and are therefore getting an even lower minimum wage. Around �5 an hour

Nmw for a under 18 is £3.72 it's £5.03 for a 18-21 year old

stopprocrastinating Tue 11-Feb-14 21:46:27

My child doesn't charge when DD poorly or on holiday.

fairylightsatchristmas Tue 11-Feb-14 21:43:35

I find it so interesting that there is such a variety of approaches with CMers. The first one we used was a cheap hourly rate and we only paid for exactly what we used, even if DC was sick at short notice she wouldn't charge us. She also didn't charge in the school hols (DH and I are teachers) because she could fill the place with school age children who don't normally need care. She was adequate as a CM but just barely. Once the DCs reached toddler age we moved them. Our current CM is more expensive and does have set contracted hours. She does charge for sick kids and we have negotiated a reduced holiday rate for school hols (which is very decent and we wouldn't argue if she had to charge full cost) but she doesn't charge when she is unavailable. She is also amazing and loves what she does and the kids adore her.

I think no sick or holiday IS the downside of being self employed but its the trade off for the flexibility and freedom of being your own boss. I think the problem with cost is that we pay over £1000 a month which is a huge chunk of our income so seems expensive but after tax etc, that's probably only about £750 for her which is only about 1/5 of our household net income so she is not raking it in. She has a few other kids for wraparound care but I know her household is pretty hard up and so whilst it is a huge bill for us, I don't begrudge it. I don't know if subsidised care is right or not - that's a different thread and there are arguments on both sides but I do think people misunderstand the economics of childcare as outlined above. What is a vast outlay to most households is not actually a very good wage for the CM / nursery at the other end.

SS3J Tue 11-Feb-14 21:33:40

Many of the staff at a nursery are under 18 and are therefore getting an even lower minimum wage. Around �5 an hour. Unsurprisingly they are not always very motivated. You are definitely being unreasonable to begrudge paying a lot for childcare. Surely it is not something you want to scrimp on?!

YoureBeingASillyBilly Tue 11-Feb-14 21:23:02

OP if you want pay as you go child care then you have to accept the risk that you turn up one morning and there are no spaces. Childcarers are limited to the numbe of midees they can have and have to know that their spaces are filled in order to pay bills. They have to charge to hold the space or people would (and do) take the piss.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Tue 11-Feb-14 21:18:27

Are you saying you dont know anyone other than CMers who get holiday pay OP? confused

PortofinoRevisited Tue 11-Feb-14 21:16:56

My nursery were closed for a week at Xmas. And assumed you would take 2 weeks hols. So they charged for 49 weeks per year/12. I thought this was more than fair. Better than dd's belgian creche that shut for the entire month of August at least leaving me with a slight problem....

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 11-Feb-14 21:12:33

Reading this thread I've just realised how expensive my childminder is, are most of you seriously charging less than £4ph or paying less than that?

I had a nightmare one previously £100 a day no matter what, so of her DH or dc were sick then she still expected payment it's no wonder she was not available for work 45% of the time

Charlilouise Tue 11-Feb-14 20:51:43

You may pay £40 a day for your nursery space, however the staff are on minimum wage in most cases, maybe a few pence more if in management.
The extra money goes on buying food to provide your child with meals and snacks whilst at nursery for the day, nappies and wipes for your child and other supplies for activities such as paints, glitter, paper etc. it also will be spent on new equipment for your child to play with whilst being at nursery.
Very little money is actually spent on staff wages, despite the fact that we are left to look after your child and the responsibility that leaves us with.
It is a job that is done for love of the children rather than for money!

TiggyCBE Tue 11-Feb-14 20:44:04

I find it very, very hard to believe that Nursery Chains (eg Asquiths) aren't profitable - I was at a big chain nursery today. I member of staff said that the company had made £10 million profit last year. It was a bottom end nursery chain, with not great resources and mostly minimum wage staff. I wouldn't send my children (If I had some) to it, or any other big chain.
The big chains account for quite a small amount of the market BTW. 5%-ish.

BazilGin Tue 11-Feb-14 20:42:31

I find it surprising that OP is being jumped on. I didn't think her post was criticising childminders or nurseries, but the cost which is one of the highest in Europe. I agree with Dahlen, the government is to blame. On average, we pay a third of our salaries in childcare whilst Sweden for example the cost is kept under 10 percent. In the past, parents also had more choice of staying at home which we don't have anymore due to increased cost of living and yes I agree with OP the cost is too high but the only way I can see it lowered i by government subsidy which is not gonna happen...better not have kids, huh? Just like some posters suggested.

collarsandcuffs Tue 11-Feb-14 20:02:03

Zero hours contracts were the norm in the childcare setting where I worked. There were 4 of us who were rung at 7am if someone was sick or was sent home if things got quiet (some children went home sick so I lost my days pay). Luckily I worked almost full time but was also a student at the time. This was more than 10 years ago and it was very common.

ElectricalBanana Tue 11-Feb-14 20:01:10

i am a childminder

i work 45-50 hours a week.

I dont charge for my holidays or my sickness.

I charge for any time off taken by my little friends

just did my tax return for last year.....i worked a 45+ hour week for a fabulous sum of....drum roll.......£10,000!

when i worked it out (taking away my hols) i think it came to £3.50 an hour....

i am a graduate.....i love my job

i am not money grabbing or diddling anyone

NatashaBee Tue 11-Feb-14 19:57:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goldmandra Tue 11-Feb-14 19:53:07

If you rent a house do you then expect a rent refund for when you're on holiday because you're not using the house?

How about a refund of your council tax if you're out of the country for a couple of weeks?

Refund on your car insurance if you're not using it for a couple of weeks?

Do Tesco give you a refund if you don't use all the food they sell you so it goes off in your fridge?

You sign a contract to buy a service and you pay for it whether you choose to use it all or not.

TheScience Tue 11-Feb-14 19:49:58

You're paying for the place.

I've used childminders and nurseries and have never used one where I have had to pay when they are closed.

However, I have always paid for the place when they are open, even if I don't use it due to sickness or holidays.

You're using a service, so if you don't like the terms of a particular business, find another one.

Borntobeamum Tue 11-Feb-14 19:44:34

I'm a childminder and am so glad the op isn't one of my parents!
I charge £3.75 an hour and that includes toddlers, soft play, food, outings and all crafts.
If the child is poorly, I still get paid but if I'm ill, I don't get paid.
In other words, if I'm open, I expect payment. If I'm closed, I don't.
Can I be any fairer op?!

TheGreatHunt Tue 11-Feb-14 19:38:03

*government <typo fail>

TheGreatHunt Tue 11-Feb-14 19:37:37

This attitude across the board really stifles the economy imo


Your attitude is why people are so poorly paid = the need for tax credits to subsidise shitty wages = higher foverent spending.

Whathaveiforgottentoday Tue 11-Feb-14 19:24:49

CM and nurseries really don't earn very much and would you really leave your child with somebody earning below the minimum wage.

Plus if your child is ill, its not as if they can fill it with another child that day, so they have to charge. My CM does not charge when she's ill and I think she's daft. However, as most of her parents would have to pay for care elsewhere, she feels its unfair for them to have to pay twice.

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