Court has ordered I take my 6 month baby to abusive ex-husbands home

[JessKB1]

Hi All....I've just joined mumsnet as wanted some advice. My ex-husband left prior to me giving birth and was abusive during my pregnancy. He's had contact with the child as I want my baby to have a relationship with her father (even though I want nothing to do with him). However he took me to court re contact and CAFCASS & the judge both agreed my baby & I would be safer at his home (lives with his parents) rather than at mine where contact has been taking place. They were aware of the abuse when making this decision. A contact order was made in ex's favour. My baby is only 6 mths old and always cries when ex is nearby. Had the first contact session at his home and within 10 minutes of arriving he began threatening me. I somehow managed to stay there for 3 hours even though my baby was extremely upset to the point that she nearly stopped breathing due to her crying and ex not letting me console her. I'm terrified of going again and worried about what could happen. I'm in the process of getting legal advice but have been told that I will need to continue going. Does anyone know if a contact order can be changed?......Thanks

[Salmotrutta]

If he threatens you then you should call the police.

What are his parents like? Do they stay for the contact?

I think I'm right in saying that some lawyers will give a 30 minute free advice session? Someone else will hopefully be along soon with better advice.

[AliceinWinterWonderland]

Can you bring another person along for the contact so that you're not there alone?

[yolothankgod]

If Cafcass are involved then doesn't that mean your Dd has her own solicitor/Advocate (can't remember the correct name) if so contact this person & tell them exactly what happened .
Contact Social Services & who ever else you are dealing with & tell them you can not for your child's & your safety take her their again .
Ask demand a contact centre until your Dd builds up a bond with him & tell them you will move on from their once they have a bond (if they have a bond)

Tell them you will not let whether you comfort your Dd be controlled by him it is a form of mental abuse towards you

[missingmumxox]

Contact centre, a friend of mine had this happen his parents pissed off the minute she arrive and her ex did similar, to be fair to them, they came back when he was in mid rant, helped her leave and supported with the contact center, they had believed him obviously he is their son, but they didn't after that,
The contact centre was great she sat in another room, baby taken by a social worker, someone sat in with her ex and his parents, he lasted 7 weeks going, 5 weeks he would arrive early and hang about outside and leave late again outside basically waiting for her to leave... Haha, if he'd known :)
2 weeks his patents dragged him there, week 8 they admitted defeat, he wasn't interested in the baby just punishing her for.. Whatever !

[ZillionChocolate]

It's possible for contact orders to be changed, but only by the court or by agreement. Definitely worth getting some legal advice. If you were represented at the last hearing, it's quickest to go back to the same lawyer.

[Rosa]

Always take someone else with you if you have to go before thsi is sorted. Don't go alone . I hope that you get the advice and help soon .

[KayleeFrye]

Don't go alone. If you don't have a friend who will go with you, pay a babysitter to come with you - with any luck just having someone else in the room will make him behave and it will be money well spent. If he is still being abusive then at least you will have a witness and may be in a stronger position to apply for the order to be changed.

If this is happening and you aren't doing anything to avoid it happening again, the courts may not believe that it actually happened - without knowing the details of the case as presented at court it's hard to know but I would guess that if you stated that you were willing for your DP to have an ongoing relationship with your daughter that would make them take the allegations of abuse less seriously because in their minds it would simplify to: willing to let him have contact = actually trusts him and doesn't think he's really violent or abusive. Not that that is true as it's more complex I'm sure, but you need to have proof that you are trying to protect your DD here.

[maddening]

record contact secretly then if he gets really threatening call the police.

video on something that automatically loads up to a cloud website such as drop box so even if he discovers it he can't delete it.

[TamerB]

I agree that you should never go alone again, take someone with you. An older person would be best. If you don't record it I would at least keep a log of the visits and write it all down in diary form.
I think you need advice and would start with CAB.
This has nothing to do with the child, he is at war with you and the child is the weapon.

[kungfupannda]

It sounds as though the Cafcass/the court were actually trying to protect against this by directing that contact took place somewhere with third parties present, rather than him being able to come to your home where you are alone with the baby.

If that is the case, then they should be open to making changes when it is clear that the parents aren't sufficient protection. I would go back to them and suggest a contact centre.

[gingermop]

I hope you dont mind me asking but when contact took place in ur home, were u alone with him there?
I had a similar situation with my ex, I broke contact and took it bak to court.
try and record him if u go bak, my advice is dont though, dont put urself in the situation again were u fear for ur and ur daughters safty.
go straight to solicitor.

[Lasvegas]

A baby can pick up on his mothers anxiety. I don't think this situation is a positive one for you or the baby. I was in your position my husband left 3 days after the birth he didn't make a contact request but if he had I would have ignored it. I would have ignored a court order as my health mental and physical and that of my child was paramount. Stay strong it will get better.

[pigletmania]

Definitely take it back to court or cafcass and see if access can take place in a contact centre. How is tgey guardian like, there is another Mumsnetter going through similar, and tgey guardian is god awful which makes it very difficult for her

[glasgowsteven]

Go to a lawyer!

explain your fears.

are you in fear of him!

[CeliaFate]

I don't know if this is feasible, or would be admissible, but can you record your meetings on your phone secretly?

[prh47bridge]

If Cafcass are involved then doesn't that mean your Dd has her own solicitor/Advocate

No. Cafcass are part of the process regardless of whether or not the parents have legal repre3sentation.

Definitely take it back to court or cafcass

Cafcass cannot alter a contact order.

Does anyone know if a contact order can be changed

Yes a contact order can be changed. The courts may not be too keen on changing the order after a single contact session, hence the advice that you need to keep going. If you don't at this stage it is possible he could take action to enforce the existing order. Keep a diary of everything that happens and listen to your solicitor. They will advise when it is time to go apply to get the order changed.

[JessKB1]

Thank you all for your responses.

Only him, myself and baby were present during the contact sessions at my home. He was quite reserved during these sessions he didn't even speak to me though I would try to start conversation but to no avail. He was never happy whilst there but was not threatening at all.

I had a representative at court and we did put the idea forward that I would be willing to go to a contact centre if contact at my place is refused. However nor the judge or CAFCASS were willing to hear any of my suggestions. I was being very reasonable but that didn't help either. Ex also suggested that I should not be present at contact sessions at his parents home and that his mum could care for my daughter. I don't trust her either. I couldn't understand how I can leave my baby with someone she doesn't know (and could cause her harm) especially when she isn't even comfortable with her father. How is she safer there?

I took my mum along with me for support and safety reasons (so glad I did). His parents are just as bad as him. His mum kept giving her son wrong advice and wouldn't stop him from being threatening. His father didn't speak to me and was also oblivious to his son's antics. It just scares me to think what could have happened if I was alone with them.

[zippey]

The baby may be crying because of a lack of bonding with ex or maybe picks up on your unease so I think you need to let him and his parents form a bond with the baby without you present. He is the parent after all and you'd think he would love his child as much as you do.

You don't go into the abuse, and your baby is still young, but as long as the baby isn't in any danger then YABU.

[MollyHooper]

Zippey, you would really leave your baby alone with someone who abused you while you were pregnant with her?

I bloody wouldn't.

I have no actual advice for you Jess, just huge sympathy.

[phantomnamechanger]

he is the parent after all and you'd think he would love his child as much as you do

^ wise up zippey. the ability to become a parent biologically has nothing at all to do with loving the child. read the news, it's full of stories of the vile things people do to their own kids.

not everyone is fit to be a parent and I wouldn't mind betting his only real interest is in bullying/intimidating/controlling the OP, or he thinks having a child is a badge of honour and proves what a stud he is.

if he wanted to put his kids well-being first, he would be going all out to prove he has grown up, shown some remorse for being a total twat, and start to be a decent person.

[Purplepoodle]

What did your mum say? How was he being threatening? Have you wrote all this down in a diary? If ss are involved could you request a social worker to be present or another unbiased individual that the courts would be more inclined to hear from

[pigletmania]

Zippy biological parents abuse their own children, so no not necessarily.

[zippey]

I think its good when OP says that she wants the father to have a relationship with the baby, though she wants nothing to do with him. That suggests that the OP doesn't believe the baby to be in danger.

As long as he isn't a danger then he should be able to see his child, without the OP present. The OP is able to see the child without ex present after all.

I cant comment if ex is only doing this to get back at OP - theres no suggestions of this. I don't know the backstory.

I also think its a good thing for children to have both parents and both extended families in their lives, if possible.

If the ex was abusive, then that's wrong and the couple should split, but if the child isn't in danger then the father should be able to see and be with the child.

[Hissy]

Why do you want to promote a relationship between your baby and an abusive man?

Seriously?

If he's too toxic for you, why would she fare any better?

Think about it.

NO contact is a better situation for her.

Put your dd first here. All contact has to be in her best interests.

Abusive men are abusive fathers. They tyrannise anyone they can get away with tyrannising

If you have to go through with this for now, if he scares you, call the police and leave.

Report it to the court, to your gp and HV. Get this documented anywhere and everywhere you can.

Go back to court and reduce contact, or stop it until he's done a perp course

[Hissy]

Zippey, I assume you have not seen an abuser at close quarters then? Not haunted the stately homes board either?

No idea of the harm an abusive parent can do to a child?

Lucky you. Seriously! :)

No child should have to have contact with an abusive parent. Abusive parents aren't fit to have contact with normal, nice, innocent human beings.