To trick someone into a confession

[SnowAway]

I'm making a claim about something that happened many years ago. It's not a legal matter but a work disciplinary matter (albeit a very serious one).

Due to the passage of time I have zero evidence to support my claim. My main hope was to just get the claim registered on the file of the perpetrator, as a) I hope there may be prior claims that mine would then corroborate and b) In case of future claims, that can then corroborate mine.

However, in the process of making this claim (which the perpetrator of the serious misdemeanour does not know about yet) I have wondered if I should try to get some evidence. To do this, I would contact the person (whom I have not had contact with for a long time but has no idea I'm making a claim or that I ever even thought anything bad about his actions) and make out that I am just getting in touch in a friendly way, in the hope that they say something incriminating in their return correspondence.

Is this unreasonable/wrong of me, and is it even admissible in a work disciplinary situation, if someone has admitted to their wrongdoing on an e-mail?

[Thatisall]

I think you'd be better off seeking proper legal advice. As would be the case if someone assaulted you in the street, coercive tactics employed by the victim may undermine your whole claim. That said without knowing what has happened it's hard to say.
Now may be the only chance you have to get any kind of admission bearing in mind the perpetrator will no doubt become tight lipped when they hear of your claim.

[SnowAway]

I know what you mean, but it's not a legal situation. The worst case scenario for the person is that they will receive a warning and have certain aspects of their job changed.

Let's just say, part of their work is supporting vulnerable people, and they made a sexual advance on some of those vulnerable people (one being me). Not underage people and nothing without consent, but a power abuse nonetheless.

I do also know names of two others who were in my situation but fear contacting them in case they tip off the guy, as I think at least one of them remains friends with him (according to Facebook).

I think if I e-mailed him a sort of 'Hey, long time, do you ever think of the old days?' type thing, he may well be a bit careless about his reminiscing.

Once the claim comes to light he will deny everything because he's a gutless, disgusting, cowardly, pathetic weasel

[Nerfmother]

Not a London hospital is it?

[FunkyBoldRibena]

If you contact him to do this, surely he would say 'she came on to me then, and she is coming on to me now...see I got an email just recently'.

[SnowAway]

Oh bugger, Funky, I see your point. :( Shit.

Maybe if I did this under the supervision of the union-type lady who is helping me? I am not at all sure she'd agree to it though.

[SnowAway]

Although... it doesn't really matter if he says that I came onto him as long as he admits to what took place. I am not denying that I had a part in what happened but for him to have had any part in it is still the disciplinary offence. As it happens, of COURSE he was the one who groomed and made the move, but I can't see me ever proving that, so if I could just prove that it took place...

[MrsWedgeAntilles]

OP, if its a safe guarding issue you don't need evidence to get the outcome you want (ie its held on file and used to corroborate any further claims). The nature of a lot of these complaints means that very often a lot of time has passed and often there is no hard proof.
Would I be right in supposing the person was medical or nursing or something similar? If so there will be notes which can be cross referenced against what you say and can give your complaint veracity. For instance, if you say he looked after me over x period or this happened on x day that can be checked.
Please don't contact him again.

[zipzap]

Do you have anything you wrote down at the time? Diary, letters, notebook, somebody else's diary after you told them...

Don't try to make it up now as it's easy (according to CSi ) to check it and see if it is fresh or the right age. But whilst it's not actual evidence, I reckon it would be considered very useful and relevant.

Good luck...

[daisychain01]

Snow, I would suggest it is naive in the extreme not to see this as a legal issue, not necessarily you bringing a legal case against him, but the repercussions of such a strong accusation may backfire against you, if you are not careful. It could be seen as you taking matters into your own hands when you don't have the expertise to handle any fallout.

I dont think it is a good idea to coerce someone into a confession, for a start if you chat to them then verbal communications can quickly become their word against yours, and not admissible. It is also likely to be seen as unethical to trick them and as previously mentioned they could accuse you of subjecting them under duress to pressure to admit to something.

Fine to escalate via the correct channels, using the formal process in place, but I see danger for you if you get carried away with something like this. You only have to see what is going on currently with Operation Yewtree (the Jimmy Savile investigations) to see how complex an issue it is and how it can spiral).

[MsAspreyDiamonds]

Don't do this as you will jeopardise your case and nobody will believe you, which will then undermine your credibility. His defence team will tear you to shreds, lodge a formal complaint and let the grievance procedure take its course.

[Igglywiggly]

I agree with the other posters, it would be a big mistake to trick this person into a confession. Playing the trick would reflect badly on you and you would surely have to say something leading to get the person to even allude to the misconduct which would seriously undermine any admission.

[WhoNickedMyName]

If you do this you will blow your own credibility out of the water and run the risk of ending up looking malicious. Please don't.

[DarlingGrace]

Similar thread the other week - university lecturer?

[SnowAway]

Thanks - I thought it was probably a bad idea, but it's just very frustrating to have no evidence (nothing, not a shred or a scrap). All I have is others who were in the same situation, so I guess I just have to hope that one of them corroborates.

I think I have to accept that nothing bad will happen to this person as a result of my complaint, because he will deny it and there's no proof, but hopefully something will go on his file, and maybe his colleagues will look at him a bit more carefully in future.

Daisy I'm not naïve in the extreme, it really isn't a legal issue! I do know what I'm talking about.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Daisy I'm not naïve in the extreme, it really isn't a legal issue! I do know what I'm talking about

Are you in the uk?

If so you may very well be naive in the extreme. There are laws to protect many vulnerable groups from sexual advances from those in a position of power over them

[SnowAway]

Yes I'm in the UK and although I've intentionally not gone into the details of the situation in case they derailed the thread, I do know them, and there is absolutely nothing illegal about what occurred, believe me. Not all power-abuse situations are illegal, and this one is not. It is, however, a serious disciplinary issue. I am not in the least naïve.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

I beg to disagree,

Your considering a very strange plan that is far more likely to backfire in your face and allow this issue to go unchallenged or sounds like it could leave you looking like you were dishonest and rather odd.

Sounds very naive to me.

[SnowAway]

I think the problem here Socket is that you are basing your rather arrogant assumption that I am native on a couple of posts, which you don't really understand as you are not aware of the situation. That's the problem with forums I guess. For example, if I were to just base my opinion of you on your last post I might accidentally assume that you are a bit illiterate, based on the lack of basic grammar and spelling.

I get it - you think I'm naïve and that the idea of getting someone to accidentally admit to something in writing before pressing a complaint against them is a bad one. Thank you for your valuable input!

Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond without being condescending. I agree that it's not worth the risk of making myself look bad, and the passage of time means that the 'casual contact' may well seem suspicious to him, especially as he was then, and therefore presumably still is now, aware of how wrong his actions were and how they would be perceived.

[SnowAway]

*naïve not native. Damn you, Autocorrect.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Or you equally could assume that I have a neurological condition that occasionally means my grammar slips.

It's only possible to form an opinion on a thread if you base it on the information provided.

If you want a fully considered opinion then it's simple,make the information you provide less vague.

[PeriodFeatures]

cough sorry to interrupt. It would be worthwhile taking advice from Sock she is a bit of an expert in safeguarding etc.

My personal advice would be not to take any action other than what the union representative is guiding you to do.

Do you mind me asking why you didnt report it at the time?

[scantilymad]

You would be unreasonable. It may not be a legal issue but even for disciplinary action he will have a right to see the evidence before him and this evidence must have been
fairly obtained.

If you don't mind me asking, why have you chosen to act now and not sooner? Please don't say if you don't want to.

[scantilymad]

Plus email is tricky evidence. Accounts can be hacked or computers left unattended so an email can be sent without the "Sender's" knowledge. Slippery slope.

[SnowAway]

I can't explain why I didn't report it at the time, sorry. :) :(

It's frustrating to know that he will lie, and I'm sure you can see that it is tempting to try to get him to slip up and prove what a true creep he is, but I can see that I'm not going to be able to do this. I'll just do what the union lady has advised me (although she has also been clear that very little is likely to come of this without any evidence). The best I can hope is that a note is put on his file that a complaint was made, and then when he does something like this again, hope that my past claim corroborates a future one.

I wasn't actually looking for your considered opinion on whether I'm naïve, Sock, funnily enough - and didn't even want any advice on the actual issue, which is why I deliberately kept it vague. I was asking specifically about the idea of contacting someone now, before starting disciplinary procedures against them, in the hope that they naively say something that they later regret when they realise I'm not back to reminisce...

[SnowAway]

Good point about e-mail evidence and hacking scantilymad