over dd's class (age 6/7) being fined team points for going to the toilet during lesson time?

[doublechocchip]

Just wondering if this is normal, dd (year 2) came out of school today bursting for the toilet, on the way back to the car I asked her why she hadn't gone in school and she said that she hadn't wanted to as the teacher fines a child who goes to the toilet during lesson time 5 points from their team.

I asked if the teacher had done that to stop messing around in the toilet and she said she had but surely you would just send them one at a time? She also said that she didn't like to go at some break times as there are more children messing about in the toilets and she's too shy to go in.

Do other schools implement this kind of thing? I mean the messing at lunchtime sounds like a bit of lack of supervision but fining them if they need to go during lessons? Am not too happy about it at all but am willing to be told I'm over-reacting!

[FortyDoorsToNowhere]

You are not over reacting.

It's not on to fine children for a natural bodily function

[redskyatnight]

I think it's normal in Y2 to try to get children into the habit of going to the toilet during breaks rather than lesson time. But some leeway should still be given - so the idea of penalising children who have to go is not on!

[MistressDeeCee]

Dont like the sound of this at all. Its encouraging them to 'hold' when they need to go - surely thats not good for the bladder, much less mindset and studying! Sometimes schools have dumb rules. A teacher at DDs primary school used to time the children eating. DD wore braces so ate slowly and ended up trying to rush, in her way. She couldnt finish her food. This led to her becoming very anxious about school and dreading lunchtimes in particular. I had to have a word with the school to get this nonsense to stop. Id advise any parent to speak with teacher about something theyre not comfortable with. There may be an issue with too many children asking to go to the toilet but if its specific children that should be dealt with, all children shouldnt be penalised and viewed by other children as costing points. Its wrong. Youre not over-reacting OP but some feel that schools/teachers are godlike with accorded status so you'll possibly get varying opinions here & there

[Oakmaiden]

I have worked in schools who do this. It is not generally amongst the younger years (and I would be a bit iffy about a year 2 child not being allowed to go) but by the time they are in year 4 or 5 they should be able to sort themselves to go to the toilet out of lesson time. Lesson time is for learning - you are not doing that, and you are potentially disrupting the class, if you are in and out to the toilet.

[Princesspond]

It's not fair to penalise pupils for using the toilet, some of the children in the class could for example have continence problems (which they do not wish the rest of the class to know about).

I would perhaps talk to the head teacher and point them in the direction of the ERIC website www.eric.org.uk/InformationZone/Leafletsandresources# and their Bog standard campaign which aims to:

1.To increase awareness of the health benefits of better toilets for pupils
2.To encourage schools to improve the condition of pupils' toilets and to allow pupils to use them when they need to
3.To get laws that will make pupils' toilets nicer to use
to campaign to improve school toilets and access to them.

www.bog-standard.org/

[Vikki88]

That's ridiculous!

[mrsjay]

I can see where the school is coming from by 6 they have breaks to go to the toilet and teachers dont want them coming and going BUT taking points off isn't on you will get kids who dont care but you get the ones like your dd who doesn't want to let her team down ends up suffering and needing a pee,

[rainydarkskies]

They can go.

The idea is that if they need to go, they do.

But plenty do not need to go but want a little break from the lesson. Or can't be bothered going at break/lunch.

I realise its a natural function but there have to be ways to distinguish need from want. I think if you could see how disruptive it can be you would understand.

[harticus]

When did schools become such dictatorial arseholes over kids using the toilet? There seems to be a "toilet thread" every other day on here.

I would complain to the HT.
Penalising children for needing to use the loo is ridiculous.
Hopefully this buffoon of a teacher will end up with some puddles on her floor.

[3littlefrogs]

The real issue is lack of supervision around the toilets at break times.
Chidren should not be intimidated or scared to go to the toilets at school.

[Wibblypiglikesbananas]

I hope you do say something to the school OP - that's a ridiculous rule.

[rainydarkskies]

One child asks if they can go to the toilet and you say yes.

Child2 asks if they can go. "When 1 comes back." Five/six children clamour to go. You end up with a list and end up saying, look, by the time you've all been it'll be break anyway. Accusations of being unfair, he was before me, I've got my period, I need a shit, ha ha ha, miss, 1's been aaages, he's got the runs/no he's having a wank/no he's skiving miss, MISS it has been ages I'm gonna BURST, miss.

How much teaching am I getting done?

Thank Christ this dictatorial arsehole no longer teaches.

[whiteblossom]

I agree the school is out of order. My ds school can be a bit funny like this, until I had a word with the teacher. I wont have my son coming home soiled, smelling, with holding or near wetting himself on the way home. How would they like it?

Send them one at a time. Im sure the teacher knows who is mucking about.

Yes some kids forget at playtime but they are kids. Plus as you mention lots of kids muck about in the loos making it near impossible to get a minute of privacy to do what they need to. I know I couldn't go to the loo with someone trying to look under or over the top of the door, banging and shouting.

Have a word.

[whiteblossom]

rainy, surely it would be quicker to get the TA to take a group in one go. If you need a wee/other in class would you get TA to keep an eye on them while you nip out?

It also sounds like your teaching high school kids...'having a wank' not primary age. At least I bloody hope not.

[rainydarkskies]

Not primary age!

We don't usually get the luxury of TAs in secondary anyway.

I actually think the schools system is a good one: it doesn't have an all out ban which as you rightly point out is unfair to genuine cases but acts as a deterrent.

"How would they like it" - well, teachers have to wait!

[doublechocchip]

Thanks for replies, would people speak to the teacher then? I've never actually had cause to have a word with a teacher about anything up until now. How would you go about wording it?

rainy I see what you're saying but the examples you're talking about seem like high school age in which by then yes I would expect them to be able to hold for a lesson but they are in a class of 6 and 7 year olds which in the grand scheme of things is still pretty young.

[meditrina]

KS1 children should be encouraged to go to the loo during breaks, but permitted to go if truly necessary during a lesson and without undue wait to be permitted to leave the classroom (so perhaps not in last 5 minutes before a break,or if several pupils out already)

OP: you school needs to investigate your DD's account of the loos during breaks, and sort out any bad behaviour.

It also needs, as a matter of some urgency, to remove punishments from toilet requirements, especially those which impact on children in addition to the one who simply needed the loo.

[SayMyNameSayIt]

rainydarkskies

That made me laugh out loud! Oh I'm so glad I teach primary!! (That's bad enough!)

[harticus]

"How would they like it" - well, teachers have to wait!

Yes that's right, the bladder and bowel control of a 6 year old child is identical to an adult.

[rainydarkskies]

That's completely out of context! Somebody asked how would the teachers like it and I pointed out they don't. They clench.

At any rate, the teacher is not forbidding the children to go, they are offering an incentive to hang on and in most cases, kids can wait but choose not to, being savvy enough to recognise that the teacher can hardly check to see whether its a touching cloth emergency or not.

[Thatisall]

Oooh that isn't good. Let's all gang up on the child who needs. Wee because they've lost team points for us all

[BarbarianMum]

I don't like the sound of that. However if your dd is deliberately holding on to go in lessons, because she doesn't like the hustle and bustle of the toilets at break time, then that is something she needs to work on overcoming.

By Y2 if children use the loos at beak and lunch time then they should rarely need it in class time.

[lilsupersparks]

Sounds like the supervision at break time is what needs work on! Then she would be able to go at that point..

My student teacher had a year 7 wet herself earlier this year - when they need to go, they need to go!

[5Foot5]

When did schools become such dictatorial arseholes over kids using the toilet?

Well I remember back in the 1970s our teacher at primary used to strongly discourage people from going in the lessons. If they insisted that they really, really had to go she obviously permitted it but there was a little lecture about that was what playtime was for.

Mind you that would be in the juniors, Y3 to Y6, I think they were probably more lenient with the little ones same age as OP's DD.