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AIBU?

To think the appalling nature of Ian Watkins' crimes and the involvement of the mothers isnt as uncommon as you might think?

119 replies

JonSnowKnowsNothing · 19/12/2013 17:54

Sorry for a thread about a horrible topic, but it's been playing on my mind.
I met up with some friends after work recently and we were discussing the Watkins case for a while. We all work in similar fields (education, social work, etc) and all four of us have had previous experience of mothers willingly offering their children up for abuse.

As you can imagine, it was a pretty sombre discussion, but having thought about it for a while, that seems quite shocking that 4 people all have experience of this. I honestly wonder whether things like this happen a LOT more frequently than we realise.

OP posts:

Report

BerryChristmas · 19/12/2013 17:56

Not in our village

uptheanty · 19/12/2013 17:57

Yes, unfortunately. It is more common than people think.

Mothers who do this tend to claim ignorance or claim to be coerced. That is not always true.

JonSnowKnowsNothing · 19/12/2013 18:02

Why the Berry?
Uptheanty, ignorance was the defence of the woman I dealt with, until her children spoke out. It was truly terrible.

OP posts:

DustyBaubles · 19/12/2013 18:04

It depends on how common you think it is in the first place.

I think it's happening all over the place, day in day out. It very rarely makes the press.

uptheanty · 19/12/2013 18:05

Mmm not surprised..jon.

It is really a truly bastard legacy that these mothers leave their children with. There complete lack of ownership and accountability is so heartbreaking for the victims.

Alisvolatpropiis · 19/12/2013 18:06

I don't think you are wrong unfortunately.

Remember the women who worked in that nursery who had not only passed on photos of children in their care to a paedophile ring but had themselves abused some of those children?

thebody · 19/12/2013 18:06

not in our village attitudes like this allow abuse to happened unchallenged.

Op agree very very disturbing.

Doyouthinktheysaurus · 19/12/2013 18:06

In a professional capacity I have worked with people who have been in this situation too

At the risk of outing myself, my Uncles were victims of sexual abuse at the hands of a lodger living in the house. He was convicted when it came out but my Nan, their mum acted as a character witness for his defence at his trial

mistermakersgloopyglue · 19/12/2013 18:07

On c4 news last night they interviewed a lady who works for the nspcc and Jon snow said 'this sort of thing is very rare isn't it' and she replied only in so far that there was a celebrity involved, the other aspects of the case are more common than you think. Jon snow seemed a bit taken aback actually as I think he meant more that it was rare for such youn kids to be involved but I don't think that is the case

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing · 19/12/2013 18:08

You mean that there are more paedophiles that are women than we like to think? Not that we 'like' to think that there are any, that's worded really badly. Than we are prepared to accept that there could be is probably more accurate.

I agree. There is this image of women as nurturing creatures who will always protect and care for their young and this simply isn't the case. Women harm or allow sexual, physical or emotional harm to be caused to their young a lot more than is the public perception. But because of this idea that women are always caring of the young, it is too difficult for many to accept and often reasons such as mental health, coersion, etc are given not because they are necessarily true but because to not offer them means examining our own beliefs about the nurturing nature of mothers.

I was very pleased to learn of the long sentence given to that vile man and to those dreadful women. I am not convinced that their remorse is anything more than feeling sorry for themselves and fearing what is facing them in their immediate future in prison.

What those women did was vile and I have no doubt that they will suffer greatly in prison but I have seen more debate about the women than about him. This in itself is I think more evidence that it is seen as more disgusting for a woman than a man, because of this perception of women as gentle, caring creatures who protect the young.

YoureBeingASillyBilly · 19/12/2013 18:09

I agree with you OP.

I only know of one mother who has done this but i have always considered that to be tip of the iceberg. There are many more we will never know about.

JonSnowKnowsNothing · 19/12/2013 18:10

Alis that was another terrible crime, wasn't it? I remember those poor parents who'd had their kids there desperately seeking answers they were never going to get. I just want to know what the fuck makes these people tick

OP posts:

YoureBeingASillyBilly · 19/12/2013 18:10

Hec i think its the fact that they are their mothers offering them up for abuse rather than 'just' female abusers. If that makes sense

honeybunny14 · 19/12/2013 18:11

I thought it was very uncommon.i suppose the thought of it being commen is unbearable

ZombieSquirrel · 19/12/2013 18:16

I have been in a slightly similar situation (involving my mother and my step dad, and sexual abuse). From support groups/what counsellor told me and online, I don't think it is that uncommon.

cantheyseeme · 19/12/2013 18:18

People will never know what goes on behind closed doors, i think its just unthinkable, im sure that sexual abuse within families was seen as uncommon at one point but now it seems to be everywhere because we hear about it all the time, if that makes sense.

Gunznroses · 19/12/2013 18:18

Just to be sure i'm understanding the OP correctly, do you mean mothers/women who unkowingly handed over their children to people without the knowledge the person was a paedophile Until their children reported them? Or shared photos without knowing the other person's intentions? But not that they happily handed over their children for sexual abuse.......

Alisvolatpropiis · 19/12/2013 18:19

I don't think right thinking people, even trained professionals, ever really know op.

I think women are often at least complicit insofar as they know abuse is happening and do/say nothing. For whatever reason. None of them good enough.

Scarbella2 · 19/12/2013 18:19

This story has been playing on my mind also OP and has caused me great disturbance. I think it is horrible to "offer up" your child but can't help thinking these mothers have some issues of abuse also. IMO the criminal preys on those who he can manipulate and can spot these mothers a mile off.
Just to add I too know of a much less extreme story in my area so all these "stories" added up equates to a lot of sad innocent children.

BertieBowtiesAreCool · 19/12/2013 18:19

I think it's far more common than we'd like to think and the thought is horrendous. I had this discussion on one of the other IW threads and I think that the "networks" are probably pretty widespread, perhaps even similar to drug networks but of course less widely known. I know exactly who I could talk to if I wanted some drugs - I'd have a few possibilities off the top of my head - and I imagine that most people do (or at least have an inkling of who they might talk to to find out) even if they have no interest in it for themselves.

The difference being that (hopefully) fewer people are paedophiles than drug users, and of course peadophiles are unlikely to be open about that fact unless they know they are within company where it is acceptable. But it's frightening to think that all it could take would be dropping some hints in various places and in all likelihood somebody you know would know somebody who knows somebody etc.

NOT trying to compare paedophilia with drug use in any way, BTW, the only similarity here is that they are both illegal activities/items which are traded on an underground network.

Alisvolatpropiis · 19/12/2013 18:20

Gunz

I think it's fairly obvious the OP does not mean women who have unknowingly placed their child in situations giving a paedophile access.

Tailtwister · 19/12/2013 18:20

I suppose the act of getting pregnant and giving birth doesn't change what you are. If you're going to be involved in the abuse of children, having your own simply makes it easier.

My GF was a policeman (1950's-1970's) and never talked about his work as it was often so horrific. We discovered through chatting to one of his colleagues at his funeral he was actually involved for many years in the unit which investigated these types of crimes. Apparently it was extremely common, even in a relatively small geographical area. Mostly it was abuse within the family unit which the mother ignored through fear or to reduce the sexual abuse she was experiencing herself. However, it wasn't unknown for parents to 'rent' out their children to be abused in exchange for money either.

NewtRipley · 19/12/2013 18:20

I know 2 people to whom this has happened.

I agree with you OP

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing · 19/12/2013 18:21

and I think that is more common still, Youre. Mothers allowing the abuse of their children. turning a blind eye, or worse. happens more than people want to think and comes back to this (wrong) idea that women will always and in every case want to and strive to protect the young. It is heartbreaking to think how many children are not safe in their own homes.

zombie.

thebody · 19/12/2013 18:23

Pure evil, no coercion, no influence, no excuse.

Vile vile vile.

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