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in not allowing my small dd (reception) on the coach

(61 Posts)
TokenGirl1 Wed 18-Dec-13 11:44:47

for a school trip and driving her instead? The coach only has lap belts and the school don't want her to use a booster seat.

She is the size/weight of an average 3 year old. In my opinion, if there is an accident she could be seriously injured wearing a lap belt around her abdomen as the belt is provided for adults not small children.

I'm sure they think I'm being overprotective but I've read the advice on car seats and there's a reason why small children are not supposed use belts around their abdomen.

friday16 Wed 18-Dec-13 13:05:42

equally couldn't a 3 point seatbelt cause a cervical (neck) fracture as just the head is thrust forward

That's the reason why seat belts have some give in them, to lengthen the deceleration pulse. When there's a risk of very high forces on your neck, either because of high speed or because of the extra weight of a helmet, then you get into the world of HANS devices, which go under the shoulder straps of a five or six point harness and hold the helmet in place. Hardly likely for street use, I would hazard.

CrohnicallySick Wed 18-Dec-13 13:09:07

The lap belts on a coach do go across the child's lap not abdomen, the way they are fitted in the coach is slightly different to a car. In a car the belt fastens to a point between the seat and the back. On a coach the belt is fastened to a point at the side of the seat, bringing it further forward and down compared with a car. I have fastened many children (age 4 up, and yes some are small) into coach seats and all of them fasten across the child's pelvis/ hip bones as it is designed to.

And has been previously said, the forces involved in a crash in a coach are less than in the car- the coach will not decelerate as quickly as a car (unless you were to hit a stationary object like a bridge, which would be less likely in the coach than the car as the driver is more highly trained, plus schools vet coach companies) and it is the deceleration that throws you forward in your seat.

CrohnicallySick Wed 18-Dec-13 13:13:41

Friday- and that's the reason why we don't use a conventional harness stage 1 seat for our DD. The harnesses in stage 1 seats don't have give in, and if the seat is fixed with isofix there is no give there either. We use a seat with an impact cushion that, in the event of an accident, would allow DD's upper body to move and hopefully lessen the stress on her neck.

Unfortunately ERF wouldn't work for us, so we got one of these seats as a compromise.

frogspoon Wed 18-Dec-13 13:21:35

That's the reason why seat belts have some give in them, to lengthen the deceleration pulse.

Ah yes, I had forgotten that they are supposed to stretch a bit.

Is there a way to tell if your seatbelt is stretching the correct amount, especially in an older car. Does an MOT check it?

friday16 Wed 18-Dec-13 13:27:36

Does an MOT check it?

No. The extension is inherent in the fabric of the belt, not in the mechanism. The mechanism should lock solid, with the extension coming in the belt.

The safety testing for motorsport tests this destructively, with the deceleration experienced by the chest of a dummy strapped into the survival cell being measured as well as the deceleration of the cell itself. The limit (for F1, "The peak deceleration in the chest of the dummy does not exceed 60g for more than a cumulative 3ms, this being the resultant of data from three axes.") is taken from experience with black box recorders showing what's survivable for fit young drivers.

cory Wed 18-Dec-13 13:36:47

TokenGirl1 Wed 18-Dec-13 13:01:46
"I asked for her not to wear the lap belt but they refused as they think it's safer with it, I don't.

On the odd occasion we use the bus/train we sit rear facing so any impact the would thrown into the back of the chair.

The only reason I know about the dangers odd incorrect seatbelts in travel is because s friend of mine is a physio for children. She told me her child would rear face in a car until at least four because of the number of children she sees with spinal injuries. When I researched it, I was horrified by what I saw on some of the injuries from inappropriate restraints."

But note that your friend the physio is talking of accidents caused by travelling in the most dangerous form of transport= the car.

Which is the one you are proposing to expose your dd to in lieu of the far safer coach.

As several of us have pointed out, if this coach is travelling in city traffic rather than on the motorway or on mountain roads it is highly unlikely that a collision would cause a strong enough impact on the coach travellers to result in impact injuries. If it hit your car otoh...

Idespair Wed 18-Dec-13 13:57:01

In our school, usually minibus has a 3 point belt that adjusts to the child's shoulder.
However in your position, I'd think it was one of those things you have to risk in order to carry on in life without being paranoid all the time. I am guilty of bring paranoid so I am not slating you for it, I'm just saying I'd stick my head in the sand for the day.

friday16 Wed 18-Dec-13 14:03:07

In our school, usually minibus has a 3 point belt that adjusts to the child's shoulder.

Minibus risks are more comparable to cars.

Minibuses driven by people who don't have PSV licenses in particular.

I'm very nervous about minibuses driven by teachers and scout leaders. Seatbelts aren't the issue.

Branleuse Wed 18-Dec-13 14:10:31

yabu and YABridiculous

the lap belt is to keep them in place. She will be fine

although if it makes you happy, and she doesnt have an opinion on it, then go for your life

Branleuse Wed 18-Dec-13 14:11:48

she is statistically much more likely to be in an accident and get hurt in your car than she is on a coach.

If something crashes into a coach, its the other vehicle that is damaged, not the coach

friday16 Wed 18-Dec-13 14:21:54

she is statistically much more likely to be in an accident and get hurt in your car than she is on a coach.

People are very bad at calculating with risk. They tend to over-state the risks of unfamiliar things and under-state the risks of familiar things. So people worry excessively about trains, planes, coaches and vaccine risk, while they are arguably too relaxed about cars, staircases, kettles and measles.

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