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AIBU, the miltery awards on ITV

(253 Posts)
RoseRedder Mon 16-Dec-13 21:01:47


I think this is wrong

The 'wars' these men/women have been in are all made up wars by the UK and USA government

And now there is a tv programme giving them celebrity status

I don't doubt the people of will be nominated will have gone out their way to aid their colleagues

But turning war into a tv programme is beyond sick

thebody Tue 17-Dec-13 15:47:41

yes regards Ireland partition in the twenties had no excuses for bombs in the 80s although granted the Protestant majority treated the Catholics disgracefully.

regards the anti terror police yes they do deal with it. I never said they didn't.

monicalewinski Tue 17-Dec-13 15:36:04


Yes yes yes yes yes.

For most of us in the RAF it is just a job. One we will have to leave at a certain age point, when we will go on and do something else.

Just because I happen to be one of thousands of people fixing aeroplanes I am not in any way a mouthpiece for/condoner of government policy.

I am not, however some sort of rabid murderer - I have 2 children and a cat and a husband and that is what my life is all about when I'm not at work.

Most people are like me - there are wankers, but there are wankers in every job.

MrsTerrysChocolateOrange Tue 17-Dec-13 15:29:19

the IRA planted countless bombs and no one had invaded their country. Oh dear. I think you will find that they think someone did.

Also, a civil defense force can deal with home-grown terrorists. Or, shock the Police.

thebody Tue 17-Dec-13 15:25:55

MrsT the London tube bombers were british citizens. no one had invaded their country.

the IRA planted countless bombs and no one had invaded their country.

SPSJSAT Tue 17-Dec-13 14:58:48

Tell you what I don't understand on these threads.

In ALL walks of life there are 'good' people and 'bad' people, then shades of grey in between. There seem to be people who have trouble realising and acknowledging this (on both 'sides')

The serving members of our Armed Forces I'm friends with are all lovely. But I'm under no illusion whatsoever that not all members of the Forces are. There are good and bad apples.

Sometimes, members of the Forces do heroic things (i.e. like some of the things on 'The Millies'). Sometimes they do awful things and - when this happens, they are hopefully caught and punished, just like the recent murder trial.

The media has become obsessed with lauding them as 'heroes' no matter whether they are the 'heroic' types - or the genuine murders like Alexander Blackman - that is where the issue lies IMO when you have people saying he should have been 'let off'. No, he bloody well shouldn't have been.

Truth is, they are not all 'heroes' and I don't expect anyone to think ANY of them are heroes.

But don't tell me it's wrong for me to think some of the ones I know are heroic either.

MrsTerrysChocolateOrange Tue 17-Dec-13 14:55:48

thebody do you really think that the armed forces protect us from terrorists? They may, through no fault of their own, actually increase terrorism. I can pretty much guarantee that the recent murder of a wounded enemy combatant sent young men into the arms of the extremists. If someone was sending armed people into my country, I might be part of the resistance, as I think they probably see it.

thebody Tue 17-Dec-13 14:51:44

it would be lovely to live in a world free from nasty terrorists, dictators and evil.

afraid we don't

so very glad there are some people willing to step up to the plate and protect us.

monicalewinski Tue 17-Dec-13 14:47:54


Armed police response teams are another example. Hero or wannabe murderer?

SPSJSAT Tue 17-Dec-13 14:44:01

One person I know would get half the people on here in a right tizzy

His job is to protect people (including civilians), potentially by killing other people (he's a body guard who has looked after, among other people, civilian diplomats)

I wonder where he fits on people's ideas of 'hero' vs 'nasty soldier who's out to just kill innocent people' (ie the two extremes of this particular argument)

monicalewinski Tue 17-Dec-13 14:39:42

Mitchy, just x posted with your last one - what you just said is exactly what I feel. It's awful that we live in that world, but we do, so we need the deterrent.

I have loved my job, but it does not mean that I agree with everything I have had to do - but I have to do it because it is my job. I could leave, but ultimately I am selfish, and I want my pension.

Janine, what is revealing?

SPSJSAT Tue 17-Dec-13 14:37:43

That's quite revealing, actually.

Not really, it's just an analogy that anyone can understand.

But I can see how it's convenient for the 'all Armed Forces are thugs' party though.

monicalewinski Tue 17-Dec-13 14:36:18

I see what you're saying Mitchy, and I agree - we are ultimately soldiers. My point is though, that for the actual people in the RAF, they are not. (iyswim)

I joined up at 20 because I needed a job. There was no soul searching, or thinking about war etc, I just needed a job. The RAF gave me a decent wage with 3 meals a day and a roof over my head - it was good fun and I learned a trade.

That's it really, most people are like me - that's why it's annoying when people say 'well you knew what you were joining to do', well of course I did, but it really, truly was the furthest thing from my mind at the time.

Mitchy1nge Tue 17-Dec-13 14:32:21

I think we have to have some sort of visible threat. I just remember thinking what an awful thing to have to prepare for, the possibility of shooting down a plane full of your own civilians.

but it is not the fault of the armed forces that people have to train for such a possibility, we just live in a horrible world

JanineStHubbins Tue 17-Dec-13 14:32:11

if you punch me in the mouth I will knock you out. Doesn't mean I'm wandering around threatening to knock everyone out, just letting them know that I am able and will knock them out if they hit me first.

That's quite revealing, actually.

monicalewinski Tue 17-Dec-13 14:29:39

Let people know that we have the capability to inflict damage if they strike us first Janine, yes.

A bit like me saying - if you punch me in the mouth I will knock you out. Doesn't mean I'm wandering around threatening to knock everyone out, just letting them know that I am able and will knock them out if they hit me first.

Does that make it clearer??

Mitchy1nge Tue 17-Dec-13 14:29:34

but we don't just defend our own airspace do we? we sent fighter pilots to italy not so long ago in readiness for aerial combat in some other crisis or other (syria?) there is often something exciting happening

anyway am not anti-military, I grew up on and around USAFE bases, am just saying we can't pretend that airforce personnel are not trained to kill or to support those who are trained to kill - whether you agree with our right to do so in defence of whatever interests, that's what all the armed forces are there for isn't it?

MrsTerrysChocolateOrange Tue 17-Dec-13 14:28:24

Just on the point that if there was no volunteers there would be conscripts. Costa Rica, amongst others, has no standing army. Japan has a 'defense force' which does the earthquakes and fire strikes but no standing armed forces. I know there are issues with NATO and Europe and our commitments but we don't actually have to have standing army.

JanineStHubbins Tue 17-Dec-13 14:22:47

Ah, so you just threaten to kill people, monica.

monicalewinski Tue 17-Dec-13 14:05:12

It's the implied threat that we have the capability to shoot you down - how many passenger aircraft have been shot down over Britain since 9/11 Mitchy?

How many Russian aircraft have been shot down over Britain since the 60s?


I have scrambled countless times on QRA and not once has the aircraft shot anything down - the implied threat was enough.

Mitchy1nge Tue 17-Dec-13 13:58:08

but that does involve killing people

if you fly a tornado, for example, you learn how to shoot down passenger jets in the event of a recurrence of September 11

IamInvisible Tue 17-Dec-13 13:57:13

Exactly Monica.

Janine, he was not/is not ultimately trained to kill people which is what Cory claimed!

monicalewinski Tue 17-Dec-13 13:55:50

Janine, the RAF is not "geared around killing people or threatening to kill people".

It's primary role is the defence of our country's airspace.

Google QRA (Quick Reaction Alert).

monicalewinski Tue 17-Dec-13 13:51:09

IamInvisible, I am an aircraft engineer - the day I have to put my spanner down and pick up a gun is the day it's properly gone to ratshit imo.

I have always been a specialist first, soldier second - 90% of personnel in the RAF have this opinion.

Absolutely agree too re voluntarily joining - this is another of my bugbears. If there were no volunteers, there would be conscription.

JanineStHubbins Tue 17-Dec-13 13:48:42

IamInvisible I think that's another sleight of hand - your husband joined an organisation that is geared around killing people or threatening to kill people. He might not actively do that himself, but he is part of that system.

I also agree with cory's post.

SMorgauseBordOfChristmasTat Tue 17-Dec-13 13:45:33

Brilliant post, Cory

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