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To think capping child tax credits at two children will plunge more families into poverty

(450 Posts)
SoonToBeSix Sun 15-Dec-13 15:08:15

Can't link but article is in the Daily Fail. A Tory mp has proposed capping child benefit and child tax credits at two children in order to win votes.
What happens to those children whose parents circumstances change ie redundancy or there is a contraception failure?
This government is taking welfare cuts too far while continuing to let the very rich avoid paying the correct taxes.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 15-Dec-13 15:10:52

Please stop reading the daily fail, its very bad for your blood pressure and will give you an attack of the vapours

SoonToBeSix Sun 15-Dec-13 15:14:56

grin I don't read it, I read an online article that referenced the Daily Mail.

YetAnotherNN Sun 15-Dec-13 15:15:43

What Sock said about the Daily Fail.

It does however piss me off that an old school friend has been able to afford 9 kids by never working, but we can only afford 2 because we work. I think there is a great need for benefits but some people take the piss and this ruins it for a lot of people. There's no way in a million years she would have had that many kids if she and her DP (who has also never worked had to pay for them out of their own pocket.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 15-Dec-13 15:17:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 15-Dec-13 15:18:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WooWooOwl Sun 15-Dec-13 15:18:43

Yabu. Families having more children than they can provide for without state help is what would plunge moe families into poverty, not a benefit cap.

I don't think this should, or would, be applied retrospectively, but if in the future people knew that they would only get benefits for two children should they become ill or be made redundant, then they would be more likely to protect themselves. They could make sure they have a lot of savings before they have dc3, make sure both parents are working so that if one isn't working then they still have an income, getting insurance policies, or by only having two children, which is something that plenty of families already do because of finances.

If this were done in conjunction with making JSA more generous then it wouldn't be a problem. I think it would be better to increase JSA because then at least people would be taking responsibility for looking for work, and if they were doing that then their children wouldn't suffer even if there are more than two of them.

SoonToBeSix Sun 15-Dec-13 15:20:23

Woowoo did you read my op where I referred to redundancy and contraception failure?

ConferencePear Sun 15-Dec-13 15:20:35

And then there's the law of unintended consequences -
1. a rise in abortions
2. a third child being a status symbol.

Or am I being too pessimistic ?

notanotherusername1 Sun 15-Dec-13 15:20:56

I think it's only going to be introduced in x or y years so it won't impact on any children now.

About time it was brought in. 'Some' might then stop and think about how many children they have. Does anyone really have children for the CB though?

In a number of years they will scrap it altogether IMO.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 15-Dec-13 15:22:49

Agree with WooWooOwl; anybody can have circumstances happen to them but if they have two children - biological or non-biological - then a cap is reasonable. Nobody's saying that people can't have more, just that people won't receive money money for that.

I know that these threads draw posters in who say it's unfair and so on but it's not really. There are people who work who can't afford more children. Bring the benefits in line to benefit them also and then it would be fair.

Cindy34 Sun 15-Dec-13 15:25:28

Childcare element of WTC already has a cap of 2 children, doesn't it? Those with more children have more childcare cost yet still get max of 70% of £300.

I do not read the daily fail, so not sure what is being talked about but is it perhaps something similar, a cap on the max claim of certain elements of benefits? Or is it a cap on all benefit?

Dontletthemgetyoudown Sun 15-Dec-13 15:26:08

Whilst I can see that this would be unfair on those who had their children when they could pay for them themselves but lose a job or get divorced, something needs to be done about the welfare bill.

There are far too any people on lifelong benefits and there is a percentage that see it as a way to stay at home and not have to be actively seeking work by having another child. To know it's not a popular opinion on mumsnet but there are people who do this and see themselves as better off on income support and tax credits combined with housing benefit than going out to work for the same money.

WooWooOwl Sun 15-Dec-13 15:26:17

Yes, that's why I referred to what a couple could to to protect themselves if one became unable to work.

I know contraception failures happen, it happened to me, but when it does happen, it's still the parents responsibility to deal with the consequences.

perplexedpirate Sun 15-Dec-13 15:27:12

You're jealous of your friend who has 9, while you only have 2.
I'm jealous you have 2, while I can only have 1.
Doubtless many are jealous of me, because I have 1, and they don't have any.
It's all relative really.
And both DH and work full-time, so it's not like we're 'skiving off!
Perhaps I should give my child benefit back? hmm

SoonToBeSix Sun 15-Dec-13 15:28:27

But woowoo people in low paid jobs can't afford insurance.
Also what about the children of irresponsible parents are you ok with children going hungry through no fault of their own?

SoonToBeSix Sun 15-Dec-13 15:29:46

Cindy they are proposing to cap Cb and child tax credits at the first two child only.

YetAnotherNN Sun 15-Dec-13 15:31:14

Goodness no, I wouldn't want 9 so no jealously here. Don't know why you think I would be - Jumping to conclusions maybe? Mine were IVF after many years trying so I'm very grateful to have them.

it does irk me that she can just have lots of children and never for a moment consider the cost because of all the benefits she gets, especially when I see friends going through the heartache of wondering if they can afford to have more.

WooWooOwl Sun 15-Dec-13 15:32:47

If people in low paid jobs can't afford insurance, then they can't afford to have more than two children either!

Children who have irresponsible parents will have irresponsible parents regardless of any benefit cap. Society shouldn't be compensating for poor parenting by throwing money at them, we should compensate for poor parenting by having better resourced social services.

notanotherusername1 Sun 15-Dec-13 15:34:07

The word 'jealous' was not used in reference to the 9 children.

throwingstones Sun 15-Dec-13 15:34:42

In an overpopulated world I can't see any justification for paying people to have more than 2 kids. If you aren't certain you can support more than 2 in any circumstances, stick at 2. That said I assume this would only apply to births going forward, not families that already have more than 2 kids.

perplexedpirate Sun 15-Dec-13 15:35:49

Oh, you're right! It was 'pissed off' and an accusation that she was 'taking the piss'.
Much nicer!

EQ2Junkie Sun 15-Dec-13 15:36:41

Don't know about this how would it be applied to a guy who has two kids. Buggers off and has two with another woman and then again. Would his subsequent children be entitled as they are his 3rd/4th etc.

Or a guy who gets with a woman with 2 and wants one if his own? It would be his only but would he be penalised as her previous relationship failed?

Or a man and a woman both with 2 get together and now have 4 which 2 of them are the valid ones?

YetAnotherNN Sun 15-Dec-13 15:37:02

perplexedpirate Sun 15-Dec-13 15:27:12 'You're jealous of your friend who has 9, while you only have 2.'

Yes it was. Hey ho. I don't care really PP has got the wrong end of the stick and jumped to conclusions, so be it.

BerryChristmas Sun 15-Dec-13 15:38:29

are you ok with children going hungry through no fault of their own?


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