My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

AIBU?

To think capping child tax credits at two children will plunge more families into poverty

449 replies

SoonToBeSix · 15/12/2013 15:08

Can't link but article is in the Daily Fail. A Tory mp has proposed capping child benefit and child tax credits at two children in order to win votes.
What happens to those children whose parents circumstances change ie redundancy or there is a contraception failure?
This government is taking welfare cuts too far while continuing to let the very rich avoid paying the correct taxes.

OP posts:
Report
IneedAsockamnesty · 15/12/2013 15:10

Please stop reading the daily fail, its very bad for your blood pressure and will give you an attack of the vapours

Report
SoonToBeSix · 15/12/2013 15:14

Grin I don't read it, I read an online article that referenced the Daily Mail.

OP posts:
Report
YetAnotherNN · 15/12/2013 15:15

What Sock said about the Daily Fail.

It does however piss me off that an old school friend has been able to afford 9 kids by never working, but we can only afford 2 because we work. I think there is a great need for benefits but some people take the piss and this ruins it for a lot of people. There's no way in a million years she would have had that many kids if she and her DP (who has also never worked had to pay for them out of their own pocket.

Report
ProphetOfDoom · 15/12/2013 15:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom · 15/12/2013 15:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WooWooOwl · 15/12/2013 15:18

Yabu. Families having more children than they can provide for without state help is what would plunge moe families into poverty, not a benefit cap.

I don't think this should, or would, be applied retrospectively, but if in the future people knew that they would only get benefits for two children should they become ill or be made redundant, then they would be more likely to protect themselves. They could make sure they have a lot of savings before they have dc3, make sure both parents are working so that if one isn't working then they still have an income, getting insurance policies, or by only having two children, which is something that plenty of families already do because of finances.

If this were done in conjunction with making JSA more generous then it wouldn't be a problem. I think it would be better to increase JSA because then at least people would be taking responsibility for looking for work, and if they were doing that then their children wouldn't suffer even if there are more than two of them.

Report
SoonToBeSix · 15/12/2013 15:20

Woowoo did you read my op where I referred to redundancy and contraception failure?

OP posts:
Report
ConferencePear · 15/12/2013 15:20

And then there's the law of unintended consequences -

  1. a rise in abortions
  2. a third child being a status symbol.


Or am I being too pessimistic ?
Report
notanotherusername1 · 15/12/2013 15:20

I think it's only going to be introduced in x or y years so it won't impact on any children now.

About time it was brought in. 'Some' might then stop and think about how many children they have. Does anyone really have children for the CB though?

In a number of years they will scrap it altogether IMO.

Report
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 15/12/2013 15:22

Agree with WooWooOwl; anybody can have circumstances happen to them but if they have two children - biological or non-biological - then a cap is reasonable. Nobody's saying that people can't have more, just that people won't receive money money for that.

I know that these threads draw posters in who say it's unfair and so on but it's not really. There are people who work who can't afford more children. Bring the benefits in line to benefit them also and then it would be fair.

Report
Cindy34 · 15/12/2013 15:25

Childcare element of WTC already has a cap of 2 children, doesn't it? Those with more children have more childcare cost yet still get max of 70% of £300.

I do not read the daily fail, so not sure what is being talked about but is it perhaps something similar, a cap on the max claim of certain elements of benefits? Or is it a cap on all benefit?

Report
Dontletthemgetyoudown · 15/12/2013 15:26

Whilst I can see that this would be unfair on those who had their children when they could pay for them themselves but lose a job or get divorced, something needs to be done about the welfare bill.

There are far too any people on lifelong benefits and there is a percentage that see it as a way to stay at home and not have to be actively seeking work by having another child. To know it's not a popular opinion on mumsnet but there are people who do this and see themselves as better off on income support and tax credits combined with housing benefit than going out to work for the same money.

Report
WooWooOwl · 15/12/2013 15:26

Yes, that's why I referred to what a couple could to to protect themselves if one became unable to work.

I know contraception failures happen, it happened to me, but when it does happen, it's still the parents responsibility to deal with the consequences.

Report
perplexedpirate · 15/12/2013 15:27

You're jealous of your friend who has 9, while you only have 2.
I'm jealous you have 2, while I can only have 1.
Doubtless many are jealous of me, because I have 1, and they don't have any.
It's all relative really.
And both DH and work full-time, so it's not like we're 'skiving off!
Perhaps I should give my child benefit back? Hmm

Report
SoonToBeSix · 15/12/2013 15:28

But woowoo people in low paid jobs can't afford insurance.
Also what about the children of irresponsible parents are you ok with children going hungry through no fault of their own?

OP posts:
Report
SoonToBeSix · 15/12/2013 15:29

Cindy they are proposing to cap Cb and child tax credits at the first two child only.

OP posts:
Report
YetAnotherNN · 15/12/2013 15:31

Goodness no, I wouldn't want 9 so no jealously here. Don't know why you think I would be - Jumping to conclusions maybe? Mine were IVF after many years trying so I'm very grateful to have them.

it does irk me that she can just have lots of children and never for a moment consider the cost because of all the benefits she gets, especially when I see friends going through the heartache of wondering if they can afford to have more.

Report
WooWooOwl · 15/12/2013 15:32

If people in low paid jobs can't afford insurance, then they can't afford to have more than two children either!

Children who have irresponsible parents will have irresponsible parents regardless of any benefit cap. Society shouldn't be compensating for poor parenting by throwing money at them, we should compensate for poor parenting by having better resourced social services.

Report
notanotherusername1 · 15/12/2013 15:34

The word 'jealous' was not used in reference to the 9 children.

Report
throwingstones · 15/12/2013 15:34

In an overpopulated world I can't see any justification for paying people to have more than 2 kids. If you aren't certain you can support more than 2 in any circumstances, stick at 2. That said I assume this would only apply to births going forward, not families that already have more than 2 kids.

Report
perplexedpirate · 15/12/2013 15:35

Oh, you're right! It was 'pissed off' and an accusation that she was 'taking the piss'.
Much nicer!

Report
EQ2Junkie · 15/12/2013 15:36

Don't know about this how would it be applied to a guy who has two kids. Buggers off and has two with another woman and then again. Would his subsequent children be entitled as they are his 3rd/4th etc.

Or a guy who gets with a woman with 2 and wants one if his own? It would be his only but would he be penalised as her previous relationship failed?

Or a man and a woman both with 2 get together and now have 4 which 2 of them are the valid ones?

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

YetAnotherNN · 15/12/2013 15:37

perplexedpirate Sun 15-Dec-13 15:27:12 'You're jealous of your friend who has 9, while you only have 2.'

Yes it was. Hey ho. I don't care really PP has got the wrong end of the stick and jumped to conclusions, so be it.

Report
BerryChristmas · 15/12/2013 15:38

are you ok with children going hungry through no fault of their own?

FFS !

Report
SilverApples · 15/12/2013 15:38

How long have child tax credits been around?
Because families having way more children than they can afford or support have been around a lot longer.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.