to think that the majority of lawyers are arseholes

[FunnysInLaJardin]

I know I am one, but having spent 5 years outside the legal profession I can now see lawyers for what they really are. Arrogant, combative arseholes. They on the whole seem to exist in some kind of other universe where everything is an argument which they have to win. I mean I did know this when I worked in law, but now I am on the outside I can see what twats a lot of them are when compared to the population as a whole.

There, that's better

[reelingintheyears]

I think the majority of people are arseholes.

[eurochick]

Wot reeling said.

There are good and bad, like any profession. I'm one too. I see a lot of bad, but I have also worked with an awful lot of lovely professional people who work very hard to get the best result for their clients without being stupidly combative about it.

[FunnysInLaJardin]

fair point reeling

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

YANB entirely U.

An awful lot of lawyers are arseholes, I do think that the profession attracts people who like that aggressive atmosphere, but I also think that the culture changes people and that they become more aggressive and arsehole-like because these are the qualities that are prized and that win promotions.

I'm talking about city lawyers here, rather than solicitors who work in smaller firms/outside London.

[EldritchCleavage]

But aren't lawyers often only as arseholey as their clients want them to be, a lot like estate agents?

I think a lot of people are moral cowards who outsource being an arsehole to professionals then walk away from the ensuing wreckage looking innocent and saying the lawyer/accountant/management consultants escalated it all and they didn't mean it.

Divorces, house sales, redundancy rounds etc: they get horrible because the principals involved are being unreasonable, usually. It is comforting but naive to think 'Oh, we'd never have fallen out so badly if the evil lawyers hadn't got involved with their arsehole tactics.'

[HettiePetal]

They on the whole seem to exist in some kind of other universe where everything is an argument which they have to win

But this is a quality I would want to see in anyone representing me. Surely, that's the whole point of being a lawyer - arguing your case. Pretty crap if they aren't trying to win.

[Dolcelatte]

What has provoked this outburst Funny?

[Tanfastic]

I work with lawyers. Some are and some aren't. Like every other workforce I assume. I most definitely wouldn't say they are all arseholes.

[lljkk]

I know 3 who are definitely nice people.
However they might agree that many of their colleagues are not...

[lljkk]

FOUR, I know 4 nice lawyers, even (apologies to step-mum now).
And lots of their lawyer friends are nice people, too.

[akachan]

I'm a lawyer. When I worked in private practice in the city most of my colleagues were pretty awful. I think that's a small subset though. I'm in house now and I really like my team, they're lovely.

[Arohaitis]

I think the majority of people in my profession are too.

I have a lawyer friend and he has got so difficult to have a normal conversation with as he has progressed up the ladder (barrister if that makes any difference)

[ChristmasCareeristBitchNigel]

I know loads of lawyers as I work closely with CPS. the vast majority of them are lovely.

I also have quite a few lawyer friends outside work - again they are all really nice, certainly not combative

[FunnysInLaJardin]

I may have to redefine my parameters then. I am really talking about city type lawyers. I know being argumentative is a good quality in a lawyer and I'm as bad as anyone, but some don't know when to stop and be normal. They see every social and professional interaction as an opportunity to 'get one over'.

Nowt really Dolcelatte just that I deal with lawyers a lot in my job, most of whom I know personally, and they still treat everything as a fight.

[stopgap]

My husband is a lawyer, and is far from being an arsehole. Actually, from what I've seen from his time at three large firms, I would classify most lawyers as geeky and socially awkward.

[SthingMustBeScaringThemAway]

You are right about solicitors. (On the whole.)

Lots of barristers, against the odds, are the loveliest people ever. But generally those are the ones who leave the Bar...

[MrsDe]

Yes, I think you're being unreasonable. I'm a lawyer and work with other lawyers. The majority of us are not arseholes. A lot of people I come into contact with through my job (and are not lawyers) are more agressive, combatative and if I felt like generalising would say there are more likely to be arseholes than the lawyers I deal with. Yes one or two are but on the whole no. I guess it depends on what kind of area you work in and who you work with.

[EldritchCleavage]

Over on FWR people were talking about the syndrome that affects middle-aged men who have been successful, namely that the success and exalted status at work goes to their heads and they become increasingly pompous and demanding of attention even outside work. My BIL's brother is definitely like this now. After years working his way up in a big organisation (not law) these days he holds forth at social occasions expecting us all to listen and defer like his minions at work. It's very sad. I remember him 15 years ago when he was a funny, irreverent bloke.

Do you think that the City lawyers you mention are suffering from this as much as the cumulative effects of a life in the law?

[TunipTheUnconquerable]

No, honestly .

Quite a few of my friends are lawyers and several of them can be a bit mansplainy at times, and I have met some right arseholes at their parties, but most of them seem ok.

I think perhaps they often come across badly in interactions with the wider community because they're used to reducing everything to an argument regardless of the human issues involved, but it's just because they're used to interacting that way, not because they have any less innate kindness or humanity than everyone else.

[LessMissAbs]

A lot of people dont like people who dont let them get their own way.

A lot of people want to pay for that.

And you get an awful lot of attack room lawyers, who dont or can't do the studying or training, but consider themselves an authority on law and the profession.

Strangely enough, I've rarely met an engineer who wasn't sexist or had some kind of minor psychological disorder. Bur I remain hopeful that I've just been unlucky.

[FunnysInLaJardin]

I suspect Eldridge that city lawyers exist in a type of bubble and get so used to behaving in a certain way that they actually don't know how to interact normally.

[LessMissAbs]

• barrack room lawyers

[TunipTheUnconquerable]

also, what Eldritch said.
I have seen lawyers who have got like that lately but no more than people in academia, local government, banking, accountancy and other professions.

[Mylovelyboy]

In my world everyone's an arsehole

[FunnysInLaJardin]

actually Less I find architects an odd bunch too come to think of it, although not arseholeish as such, just socially inept. Accountants can also be rather strange.

Maybe it's because I know so many lawyers socially and professionally that I expect them, quite unreasonably, to be normal