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about the feminism/WR area?

(344 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

fleacircus Sat 05-Oct-13 05:26:35

I don't like dogs, and I think most television is irredeemably stupid drivel and that there's no excuse for anyone with an actual life of their own to watch 'Made in Chelsea', and although I like knitting I don't really get the point of scrap-booking. Those are my opinions, and I'm entitled to hold them, and I would construct arguments to support them if pushed, but I don't go onto the TV thread and find people who like 'Made in Chelsea' and then go on about how wrong they are and when they get angry keep saying 'you just can't take it that other people don't share your opinions' until they get bored and give up on the thread altogether.

And I've got all the kids I want, thank you very much, so I'm not TTC, and I was lucky to conceive my kids in a very straightforward manner, so I don't actually know anything about how it feels not to, and I don't have any useful advice or insights for those who are TTC, and I don't have any medical expertise about TTC, so I've set my MN preferences not to display those threads.

So why is it that people who clearly have no interest in feminism or women's rights, and no knowledge of the often complex political, social and personal ideas being explored, and don't actually hope to learn anything or contribute anything of any value, hang around that area spoiling for a fight? Because there's a whole section of MN dedicated to expressing your opinions. It's this one. There's a question mark in the title and everything.


AnyFucker Sun 06-Oct-13 17:13:43

I don't think it's a class issue at all. I am working class through and through. I have not studied feminism academically at all. All my knowledge is from gut feelings, experience, reading links posted on places like the FWR board, learning from others there/elsewhere and on the relationships board and being involved in such as part of my job.

No more, no less. Some of the discussions I find I can really relate to (abusive relationships, fucked up family dynamics, eg). Some of them I feel further away from (transgender issues, eg) but I just skim over them as not of current interest to me. It doesn't mean I don't respect others viewpoints about them though.

roadwalker Sun 06-Oct-13 17:15:41

[no comment]

AnyFucker Sun 06-Oct-13 17:16:16

Oh well, your choice.

roadwalker Sun 06-Oct-13 17:16:24

Damn, that should have been my first biscuit

AnyFucker Sun 06-Oct-13 17:16:57

I like a chocolate digestive, cheers.

roadwalker Sun 06-Oct-13 17:18:10

you are welcome hun

AnyFucker Sun 06-Oct-13 17:18:49

If this is how you respond to people giving their opinions politely, RW, I am not even faintly surprised you got a cool reception on any board, not just FWR.

roadwalker Sun 06-Oct-13 17:20:22


swallowedAfly Sun 06-Oct-13 17:21:44

i cannot think how long it's been since i was on the fwr topic. guess it doesn't hit active much anymore.

wonder why.

LRDtheFeministDragon Sun 06-Oct-13 17:47:21

That's funny, I keep on seeing it hit active. confused

Like, with the threads that run into hundreds of posts - those come up a lot.

Mind you, I miss them when I'm in my own little world which happens a fair bit.

LRDtheFeministDragon Sun 06-Oct-13 17:48:44

Btw, I am knackered from a busy weekend but FWR is fantastic IMO, and has been immensely better this past year. It's full of wise, compassionate people who'll give a lot of time. And HQ have got a lot better at cracking down on the trolls, which is brilliant.

And for that, HQ, thanks.

AnyFucker Sun 06-Oct-13 17:55:25

I find FWR a comforting place, tbqh. Hard to take sometimes, but still comforting. I know I will get sympathy and understanding there, have always found it to be that way even when I made my very first ill- advised forays into feminism. I learned, I regrouped, I came back with better arguments and a rounder understanding. Everyone should try it.

LRDtheFeministDragon Sun 06-Oct-13 17:59:16

I agree, AF.

I have found with the recent debates over the last year or so, I feel as if I have a better understanding (though necessarily limited) of how feminism and trans issues intersect. I could not possibly have discussed that fruitfully anywhere else, I think. I'd have been labelled transphobic or told I was not a proper feminist, and both sides would have shouted me down. But here we can talk about it and people are patient enough to educate instead of just yelling.

Portofino Sun 06-Oct-13 18:01:19

It is constantly in active. Many of the posters who I learnt so much from no longer post though which is really sad. There are still some great posters.

AnyFucker Sun 06-Oct-13 18:01:40

I can't get my head around trans issues, LRD. Some people can though, and Fair Play to them.

swallowedAfly Sun 06-Oct-13 18:03:18

i'm so chuckling.

LRDtheFeministDragon Sun 06-Oct-13 18:13:27

Yes, I'm not being subtle, but I should perhaps be even more blunt.

SaF, I can understand you are disappointed that, for you, you feel FWR is not so much fun any more. But I think it is ungracious to the people who post there regularly to say that it is not very good now. I have really valued threads by current regulars.

I do think there is an issue here, that we all develop and change. It happens all over MN - people get invested and excited, or jaded and bored, in cycles. If you're not enjoying a section of the board, IMO, you can either get stuck in and help change it, or you can recognize that maybe you need a break.

AF - oh, god knows, I'm not saying I feel I know exactly what's what and it's all clear in my mind. But I feel much less of an ignorant arsehole, and that's something! :D

AnyFucker Sun 06-Oct-13 18:15:32

This thread is starting to look very unsafe though, so I shall take my presence elsewhere for a while. confused

TunipTheUnconquerable Sun 06-Oct-13 18:17:03

I don't think it's in Active any less. When I pop in there always seems to be a lot going on. I don't tend to post as much because it's often discussions I feel like I've already had several times. It is probably more liberal and less radfem in tone than it used to be but it also seems to be going strong and attracting a lot of new regulars, just like it always has.

LRDtheFeministDragon Sun 06-Oct-13 18:25:57

I don't think that is true, tunip.

I actually think that is a big change in the whole site.

I have only been here since about 2009. But when I was first on here, the whole site was less feministy. There were lone voices in Relationships like AF and Dittany, who were saying, wait a minute, maybe it's actually not ok for your relationship to be this way. But the big campaigns about gendered toys for children, or 'I Believe You', were either very new or not there. And I think those campaigns had a big effect. I think now, posters are generally aware of a feminist viewpoint. They may disagree with it, but they do so with awareness that lots of people do agree. I think that is very positive.

I've noticed looking back at old threads, that if you'd posted about rape myths four years ago, only a few people would have known what was meant by that. Now most posters seem to know, in FWR or elsewhere, even if they disagree about the specifics of what constitutes a rape myth.

So I think that while there isn't such a striking difference between FWR and the rest of the site as there used to be, it isn't really because FWR as a whole is more liberal - it's because the rest of the site is more feminist.

TunipTheUnconquerable Sun 06-Oct-13 18:28:26

That's interesting LRD. You could well be right.
I do think though, there were certain really Overton-window-moving conversations (eg that massive thread about separatism back when Sakura was here) that I can't imagine happening now.
But definitely a lot of what Dittany used to be a lone voice saying in many threads is now MN standard.

swallowedAfly Sun 06-Oct-13 18:30:48

impressive mind reading skills there - baffled by how you can see into my mind so well but i'll back out of the passive aggressive yukness as it makes my skin a bit crawly to be honest.

will hide this thread.

JulieMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 06-Oct-13 18:34:51


We know tomorrow's Monday and all of that, but if you could remember our lovely talk guidelines before you hit 'post', that would be grand.


LRDtheFeministDragon Sun 06-Oct-13 18:35:09

Well, I was only reading the words you wrote, but it's always good to know you're writing what you think (as opposed to what, making up stories for the sake of it? confused).

Anyway ... I didn't quite see why what I've said merits thread hiding. I just think it is actually quite rude to lament a section being boring, when there are many active threads there with interesting posters. And I'm not really a FWR regular any more, so this isn't me talking about me or taking offence on my own behalf.

tunip - yep, you're right. I miss sakura and she was amazing. I do also miss that effect Dittany had, of making people take on unpalatable truths and really work to assimilate them. But I still think the change in the site is the more important thing.

SHarri13 Sun 06-Oct-13 18:48:27

YABU, made is Chelsea is brilliant.

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