"We should turn a blind eye to underage drinking in pubs"(78 Posts)
As said last night by an old mate of ours who has been running pubs since Noah was a boy.
He backed this up by saying that people my age (40 eek!) snuck into pubs with either our fake ID or too much make up and a veneer of confidence, and learned how to drink. We learned how to behave in pubs when we were too poor to get plastered, we learned what alcohol did to us, and by the time we were 18 it was nothing new. He said he preferred to have a few 15/16 year olds having a pint that lasted all night than what he has now which is brand new legal drinkers absolutely hammering it and getting totally off their faces every weekend. He blames the clamp down on underage drinking for a lot of the binge drinking that goes on now, because kids at 18 have more money and freedom than those a couple of years younger, often they are away at Uni, so have nothing stopping them from getting battered.
My first reaction was "Dont talk crap!" but then I thought about it, and I think that he may have a point. I know a lot of parents who dont allow their children to drink at home until 18, which mystifies the whole thing and again, doesnt allow them to learn in a safe environment.
AIBU to think that he may be right in that our underage sneaking into pubs stopped us from ending up in the paper with our knickers around our ankles in a puddle of our own piss?
The first time I got ID'd was when we went out to celebrate my 18th! We had been going to a particular bar for about 3 years and never had a problem, then it became popular as a pre-town pub and so got bouncers in. Because I hadnt got any ID I didnt get in the first time I was actually legal!
I think there is a difference between pubs and places where the idea is to get as pissed as possible as quickly as possible. We used to drink in a villagey type place and that was fine, but would never have got in to any of the clubs in town. I think that clubs should be over 21 (like in the US) but pubs over 18 with the blind eye being turned as long as they behave.
Re the sixth form drinking, there was only one pub in staggering distance of school so it was generally accepted that the teachers would acknowledge us, and us them, but after that we stayed in different areas and "what happens in the pub stays in the pub"
I have to admit, I thought I would get flamed for this!
You realise that this is going to be in the Daily Mail tomorrow!
Fingers crossed! I would be thrilled to think that I had incited some pearl clutching in la la land!
Completely agree. I grew up in a village outside of a northern mill town with parents who didn't drink at all due to religious preferences. I learned between 15 and 18 how to handle a drink and behave around adults; started working ever-so-illegally behind the bar for cash in hand at 17 and worked in the licensed trade all the way through university. I really worry and pity my DCs (when they come along, still TTC right now) for not being able to have the socialisation around alcohol that me and my friends had. My DSis has socialised hers through a glass of wine/beer with sunday lunch since they were pretty small, but I think social pressure is better, in terms of not getting wasted!
Thinking about these posts & my own experiences.
I come to the conclusion that:-
Social drinking for teens could/should(?) be brought back. But only under certain conditions...
1) They don't turn up pissed (breathalised before entering est.) or stoned/drugs.
2) Grand/Parents/Guardians have to pay a deposit (50£ to ensure good behaviour?).
3) Comform to a reasonable dress code.
4) A maximum of 1-2 pints depending on strength with a meal/def. no spirits (very important that meal btw).
5) Proper non-forgeable photo ID cards/a finger print machine.
6) They can drink only Fri/Sat nights from 8-10pm.
7) Info would be shared with other participaring est.
I think that covers it.?
Makes sense. Like many others I was drinking in pubs (and clubs!) from around 15 and never got into any trouble. The few times I got plastered was after drinking at someone else's house.
Mind you, I had been drinking the odd beer at family barbecues, or glass of wine with dinner since around 13.
When I went to uni, it was a revelation how many 18 year olds had clearly never been let off the lead before, and their main objection was to get as drunk as possible as often as possible.
Thewhitequeen- we had the same at our school leaver's do. The majority of us were 16 so the teachers arranged for glasses of wine to be served with our meal. But some kids managed to sneak into the bar next door and get served pints, the teachers just rolled their eyes, and when they 'checked' us for alcohol didn't seem to notice that some of the boys had their hands behind their backs!
This thread has made me think. I started going in pubs when I was 15 and drank a couple of pints throughout the night. More as I got older - spirits etc. We were limited to what we could afford and were sort of supervised by arsey landlord types who never put up with any c**p.
We never drank at home before going out, our parents would never have bought us anything from the off licence and we were too young to buy it ourselves.
So yes OP, I get his point but teenagers seems to have money nowadays and some parents seem happy to allow them to get plastered at home or before they even go out.
I blame Alcopops (seriously) !
Totally agree - dread the thought my boys will be drinking in parks when they're older rather than in a pub where they would be forced to behave and would be watched by adults.
I went to the pub regularly from 15-16 (and this would have been 2004/5). Our pub didn't ID and although I'm pretty sure they knew we were underage, we never caused problems and they never asked for proof of age or threw us out.
But, I still got ridiculously drunk when I got my A-level results (when I was 18 and legal to drink) and a few times at university before I learnt my lesson. I don't drink much now - maybe on a Friday night or if DP and I go out for dinner, but drinking at 15/16 in the pub didn't stop me getting stupidly drunk when I was legal.
Landlady of our village local used to let us use the pool room sometimes. Happy days. Pool table, boys and the jukebox. In a grown up environment with that lovely beer smell.
I agree bogeyface
I always thought the German system had it's merits. At the nightclubs I went to the system was:
ID at door, irrespective of age.
16 - 18 yo gets one colour wristband (pink say) and ID is kept
18+ gets different wristband.
16 - 18 only served soft drinks or beer (possibly wine too, not 100% sure)
At midnight, under 18s have to leave. 10 minute warning given. ID cards collected on way out.
I was told if you didn't leave when supposed to, you were summoned over the intercom, and if you still didn't come they called your parents/the police but I'm not sure whether that happened in reality or if it was just my German friends pulling my leg
Yanbu. I was out drinking from 15. I was always tall
and had massive knockers so never got asked for id. We never caused bother as we didnt want to draw attention to ourselves, so landlords didnt mind.
At the local pub i go to there is a main room then a smaller side room. It is well known that the side room is the underage bit. Referred to as 'the playroom' landlord knows they are all 16/17 but as long as they are quiet and dont start fights etc he lets them in. Us old ones put them in their place if we need to. There are a lot of 40/50 year old blokes that drink there who wouldnt think twice about throwing them out if they played up.
Id rather them be in the pub having a few pints and playing pool than drinking cider on a park bench tbh
I also agree. And I think 15/16 year olds having their first drink somewhere were they know they have to behave or be kicked out is also a good thing. I did it when I was younger.
I think having a sneaky few in pub is far preferable to getting someone to buy you a bottle of cider and getting smashed in a park.
Totally agree - when we drank in pubs we had to behave - now towns are full of kids getting hammered and shouting at people.
I disagree completely.
Partly because I didn't have that experience. We went into pubs/clubs from about 15 and got plastered. We'd get the cheapest drinks (and a pint is on average quite a bit stronger than it was 20/30 years ago), and we'd pester people to buy them for us, and so on.
I don't think we learned how to handle alcohol any better than the people who never drank until they were 18 (or 21, as I know plenty of Americans).
I have a problem with it in that I think it normalizes a booze culture, especially for university, so you don't actually learn to do normal stuff like socializing sober as well as you might have done. I know I sound like a massive killjoy and I doubt anyone is ever going to completely stop 15 year olds boozing illicitly, but I don't really believe that underage drinking is particularly brilliant to encourage either.
Because my 13-18 drinking was all done in cheap Welsh pubs and village dance bars I didn't think university booze was cheap at all. I stayed in my flat and had mates round for tea and toast.
It was the, supposedly, streetwise students from London who got totally rat arsed and threw up everywhere. I lived with a couple. They behaved like they were 16 at best.
I completely agree.
I would rather my boys had a couple of drinks in the pub were the Dover bar staff can keep an eye on them than down the park posses or as high as a kite.
We used too have a sensible approach to this but in the past 10yrs we seem to going the American way (completely neurotic) regarding drinking.
Dover = sober. I really should proof read before posting.
I agree, Bogey.
Dd is 18 and I've been letting her have a drink for a while plus wine if we go out for a meal from age 16.
She is well pissed off though. I got her a citizen card as ID as it is part of the PASS scheme and it turns out loads of places won't accept it even though it comes from the bloody stupid Home Office and has her picture on it. Waste of money.
Our 6th form discos were at the local rugby club and alcohol was served. There were teachers there and no one was allowed to get pissed.
The UK's unhealthy relationship with alcohol is not caused by underage kids getting into pubs and won't be solved by stopping underage kids getting into pubs.
Billybanter, you are absolutely right, as long as it is seen as seen as cool and normal to get puking drunk in town several nights a week, this unhealthy relationship will continue. Drinking should be used to relax and help you enjoy the evening, these days, it seems to be that drinking is the whole point of the evening. I think that's where the problem lies. We no longer go out with our friends and have a drink, we go out drinking with friends.
YANBU. I too was going out from age 15. We drank on the street corners before that for a while and we were much safer in the pubs. The landlord of one place actually made an announcement saying as such one week after the Police paid him a visit.
We'd have a few drinks, have a dance and get the bus home at 11:10. By 16-18 when we did A Levels at college we progressed to proper clubs, but it was very rare for any of us to get so battered we were ill.
Some of my uni mates didn't have the same experience and drank only to get drunk, I still find this most odd 15 years later.
I don't get what is happening these days. Where is the pleasure in getting tanked up on cheap vodka before you even go out?
Twatty is absolutely right - the drinking was always secondary to just being sociable with mates when I was young.
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