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To not apologise to dsis who is pregnant?

(158 Posts)
waltermittymissus Tue 17-Sep-13 12:02:53

Dsis has married a nice enough man from Turkey.

I say nice enough as I don't really know him nor does she and there's a language barrier to prevent any major communication.

She has fallen pregnant after believing until fairly recently that she can't conceive. This is obviously brilliant! I'm thrilled for her.

However, she's having a boy and although she says he won't be raised as Muslim she is having him circumcised.

She knows nothing about it save that that's what her dh wants. I don't agree with it and while I know it's none of my business, she was asking opinions the other day and I told her my honest views.

It wasn't an argument but the conversation did turn a little heated resulting in her storming out.

My mother wants me to apologise, not because I was horrible or anything but because she's pregnant.

I'm not apologising because a) she asked for opinions and then got really defensive b) she's pregnant not sick and c) those are my views. I'm not sorry for them.


hermioneweasley Sat 21-Sep-13 21:38:09

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. At all.

The Kurds tend to be more religious, conservative, less educated and the women much less powerful than in Turkish families. For example, any "honour killings" I have ever heard about in Turkey or among "Turks" in the UK are actually Kurds. I am aware that this sounds racist, but it is a reality that the ethnic Kurds have a very different culture to Turks.

Does the husband have a job or assets or anything in Ireland which would make him want to bring his family back here?

waltermittymissus Sat 21-Sep-13 21:46:15


No, he has nothing here. In fairness, he has been trying to get work but it's Ireland in a recession! Difficult is an understatement.

He has been very vocal about wanting to move back home though even from the start of his being here.

And, weirdly enough, I don't think they've registered their marriage here yet and his visa runs out before Christmas if they don't register it.*

*this is according to other dsis. I don't know for certain.

hermioneweasley Sat 21-Sep-13 22:37:48

Hopefully we are all worrying unnecessarily and they just have a lovely visit with his family and come back.

dedado Sat 21-Sep-13 22:59:19

I may have missed the info, but how and when did they meet? Was it a holiday romance? Is your dsis a bit naive or inexperienced in relationships?

jessieagain Sat 21-Sep-13 23:07:52

I think you should say you are sorry that you upset her.

jessieagain Sat 21-Sep-13 23:23:16

I just read the thread. It sounds very stressful. So he doesn't have a job and they haven't registered the marriage?
It certainly sounds as if they are headed for turkey.

waltermittymissus Sat 21-Sep-13 23:33:38

They met when she went on holidays, yes.

She tells people they've been together three years...

Prior to him moving here they'd only spent probably 6 weeks actually together!

She's not inexperienced by any stretch but naive and I hate to say it but desperate.

cjel Sun 22-Sep-13 00:09:36

hope you manage to see her at work - just to be a friend, the more 'normality' she has the less he will be attractive hopefully.

dedado Sun 22-Sep-13 01:03:50

Just thinking aloud, but his disinterest in learning English or getting a visa must be a concern for you all. Do you know if any family or friends have spoken to your sister about her views on possibly living in Turkey? I assume that she'll get a true picture of what it'd be like if she visits as a wife and mother rather than just a girlfriend. Hopefully once the baby arrives she'll get a good dose of protective mama bear hormones and become more assertive about her child.

ukatlast Sun 22-Sep-13 01:26:09

I think your Mother should have her and baby's passport to prevent her being removed from UK against her will.
Make sure she knows she can leave him at any point - presumably they can move back in with your Mum?
I am at a loss as to why someone would seek a partner over the internet like this and it blunts my sympathy for your sister somewhat. It doesn't mean she doesn't need protection from him though..she likely does.

YourHandInMyHand Sun 22-Sep-13 08:44:24

Seconding the Kurdish compared with Turkish view that hermoine mentioned, I posted about my stepmum's ex husband further up thread and he was actually Kurdish.

If this was my sister I'd be very worried for her.

waltermittymissus Sun 22-Sep-13 11:55:08

She has said that she won't move but not terribly convincingly!

Also, once they got there with my nephew, whose to say what would happen?!

He said he wanted to learn English and I found out our local library had lots of courses etc for this. He hasn't gone to one. Not one. They're free!

She met him on a holiday with her friends and then went back a couple of times. Next thing, they're engaged. Sometimes even she can't understand what he's saying.

She would 100% be able to move in with mum and dad or any one of us. I'd take her in in a heartbeat!

I haven't seen his village or where he lives but dsis who would be closest to her was there and she was quite taken aback by it but then, she's a creature of comfort and in all honesty, I don't think it's fair to judge too harshly when standards are just not the same!

Wibblypiglikesbananas Sun 22-Sep-13 12:31:19

I think the most important thing to ascertain here is whether the baby has a passport and can actually be taken overseas. Equally, what is the DP's immigration status? Surely he'll have to leave the UK once his visa runs out? There used to be a loophole whereby it was possible to get married on a tourist visa (10 years ago - I know someone who did it) but not sure if this exists now? If it doesn't, married or not, he won't be able to stay (and personally, I'd be questionning the legality of the 'marriage' in the first place).

Whilst I absolutely don't agree with the way the sister is being treated by her partner, if he has been brought up in the culture described here, in a very (by our standards) backwards village, he won't see anything wrong with how he's behaving. TBH, your sister has been ridiculously naive and needs to realise that if the baby does go to Turkey, there's a high chance he won't come back.

Having travelled extensively in Turkey, I'd also like to add that there is a huge difference between the city and the countryside. Cities like Izmir, Ankara, Istanbul and so on are extremely westernised, have excellent universities, cultural scenes etc. However, the further east you go, certain areas can be like taking a step back in time and understandably, the level of support and intervention in the event of a crisis (ie a child needing to be found) will just not be there. There was an article in The Guardian magazine yesterday about parents abducting their own children - often the father and often the child being taken to a country whereby the father had more rights than the mother. Some of the cases were heart breaking. Your sister would do well to read it. She needs shocking out of her inertia.

AlansCatalanCat Sun 22-Sep-13 13:01:37

They are in Ireland, not UK.

waltermittymissus Sun 22-Sep-13 13:21:16

YY we're in Ireland though I'm sure the laws are similar if not the same.

They married in Turkey so he has a spousal visa AFAIK. However, in order to stay here it must be registered here and as yet, to my knowledge, that hasn't happened.

Maybe that's been the plan all along and she's not willing to tell us.

I love my sister but she has issues with jealousy, self-esteem and, in all honesty, basic bloody common sense sometimes!

I'm very worried but then, I have been from the start.

AlansCatalanCat Sun 22-Sep-13 13:26:31

Yes, I just mentioned it in case there are any variations in the law.

waltermittymissus Sun 22-Sep-13 13:28:15

Thank you Alans

Vivacia Sun 22-Sep-13 16:23:09

extremely westernised, have excellent universities, cultural scenes etc

I get what people are saying about cultural differences, but to say that having academia and a rich culture is a result of being westernised seems fairly ironic in this context.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Sun 22-Sep-13 19:34:48

Vivacia - simply meant to illustrate that the whole country can't be judged by the actions/behaviour of one man who appears to originate from a more rural (and hence traditional) area.

Vivacia Mon 23-Sep-13 03:39:36

Absolutely, just challenging the idea that academia and culture, in one of our most ancient civilisations, means that it's westernised.

cjel Mon 23-Sep-13 08:01:40

Morning, are you going to try and see her today?x

waltermittymissus Mon 23-Sep-13 09:58:00

Literally just back in my car. She works a couple of minutes from dc school so I nabbed her on the way in!

She couldn't talk for long and was already about 15 mins late from our chat so I didn't get into anything too heavy.

As soon as I saw her she burst into tears sad then I just felt awful, and yes, I apologised profusely because I'd rather be a hypocrite and have her safe tbh.

I asked what was going on with her, she said she's overwhelmed with everything so I asked with what and she said "I can't handle anymore pressure over this, I just want to enjoy my baby".

Now, maybe I'm being paranoid but I don't think she's really had any pressure from us and can't help but wonder where else it's coming from.

There was a giant alarm bell ringing for me because when I said that nobody meant to pressure her, and we all just wanted what was best for her and dn, she said "well everytime one of you says something like that, it's me who has to deal with the shit afterwards". That's not good is it?

I walked her into work where her manager (who is lovely) sat her down with a cup of tea. I asked did she want to come home but she said she'd rather stay there.

I told her I wouldn't say anything about it again and just asked her to keep in touch. The she asked me not to say anything to anybody but I really think I should!

I feel like fucking punching him to be frank. But then, I haven't really helped either so I'm just as bad. sad

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Mon 23-Sep-13 10:24:53

Walter I think you really have the measure of this situation and the BIL. I'm really glad you got to speak to her face to face, not with BIL acting as your SIL's keeper. I think if you can maintain that somehow then your SIL has a better chance of eventually seeing the light/standing up for herself when she really needs to.

waltermittymissus Mon 23-Sep-13 10:35:10

Thanks Tension

I feel really uneasy but at least she's speaking to me!

YourHandInMyHand Mon 23-Sep-13 12:48:13

Glad you managed to talk to her in person.

All you need to say to others is that you have apologised and want to be there for her and enjoy your new nephew when he arrives - it's true and supportive and draws a line under her getting upset with you for speaking your mind.

Try to just be there for her. When she holds her little baby boy she may very well change her mind about having him circumcised.

If this was my sister I'd be telling her I would always be there for her no matter what. It sounds like she is under a lot of pressure from him and the going no contact with you all for a bit there sounds more like his influence than her decision to me.

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