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To ask you to rage against cancer with me?

(87 Posts)
tunnocksteacake Sun 15-Sep-13 12:35:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

marzipanned Sun 15-Sep-13 21:04:50

Oh God no, LBE, that's not what I meant at all. Tbh in my mind anyone who gets up and faces the day and doesn't just lie on the floor sobbing is fighting. Bad terminology. I'm sorry. And I know I'd just be lying on the floor sobbing.

Sparklingbrook Sun 15-Sep-13 21:11:49

I am sorry Tunnocks has left the thread.

My own take is that the treatment for Cancer is as harsh as the Cancer itself. Each one is it's own individual case too.

WahIzzit Sun 15-Sep-13 21:15:25

Sorry for your losses sad and prayers of health for those diagnosed with the terrible disease.

I agree with those saying its not about fighting and winning. Its a disease, it is something out of our control. Some patients will get better while others do not. It depends on the type of cancer, the stage its at, yes the age and general health of a person can play a part in controlling or overcoming it, or none at all as some forms are so aggressive it makes no difference if the person is young, fit and healthy.
I know you meant no offence OP, and I can understand your anger. Its very unfair, but scarily we have no control over these things and I personally feel it makes more sense to direct our energy and emotions into raising funds and supporting cancer charities.

expatinscotland Sun 15-Sep-13 21:16:38

SO true, LBE, and I never realised how harmful such lingo could be until I met the mother of a 29-year-old man who died of relapsed lymphoma with unsuccessful bone marrow transplant. She told us all, of the journal entries she found of her son's, after he died, of how he felt he was letting his loved ones (he did not have a partner or children) down by not 'fighting' enough. FGS, this man had a disease, he was not fighting some war he just had a disease.

My daughter was not a warrior she was just a child who had a very unfortunate disease, a plague, if you will, that claimed her life.

We only attach such lingo to cancer, and I think it sets everything back because until we start treating it as the disease it is we cannot move as far forward as we need to, because fight, battle, struggle, etc all implies it is what it is not: ourselves. A problem in the immune system that causes the body not to kill the rogue cells that are present all the time and allows those cells to proliferate and hijack blood supply and production to feed those rogue cells. That's IT.

It is scary in part because of the lingo that it is attached to it and which is, well, us and who we are.

Once we start seeing it as that, and not something scary and invasive then we can start looking at it in the way it needs to be looked at, as the mechanical problem which we need to route out and correct if possible.

Lilyloo Sun 15-Sep-13 21:21:25

Tunnocks did say she would fight it by fund raising I think in her op as well as prayer and hope which are things that most people share in desperate situations.

Sparklingbrook Sun 15-Sep-13 21:23:06

Tunnocks situation is very new and raw.

expatinscotland Sun 15-Sep-13 21:25:50

'Some patients will get better while others do not.'

This. You see, my child's part is over. Now, her siblings have to live on. And we want, so much, to blame something. There is nothing to blame. So often, it is stochastic. There is no trigger, no reason why, it just is.

My son who is 4 blurted out, 'Some people go to hospital and go home when they get better, and some people, like DD1, die.' Yes, that's the essence of it, isn't it?

Sometimes, it depends on nothing more than utter randomness, but this is very hard to accept in our society, and IMO, we are the poorer for it.

We never say, 'I beat my heart disease,' or 'I kicked stroke's butt,' but they are one and the same. A disease.

Start seeing it as that and you stop feeling wronged and then, you start thinking along the lines that will lead us forward.

Because there are no winners and losers in the human condition, and cancer is part of that.

IMO, of course.

It is totally natural to feel angry, robbed, wronged, I do, even now. It will not change a thing. See, that's just it: thoughts don't change a thing. If they did, then no one would die of cancer.

I like John Diamond's book, 'C: Because Cowards Get Cancer, Too'.

lisad123everybodydancenow Sun 15-Sep-13 21:30:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lisad123everybodydancenow Sun 15-Sep-13 21:31:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

expatinscotland Sun 15-Sep-13 21:32:09

Absolutely, Lilyloo. 'Start at the beginning, go until the end, then stop.'

Do all you feel you can and what is suitable. But make no mistake about what it is. Dementia comes from ourselves, too, so do diabetes, MS, ALS, a ton of diseases that are just that.

It crossed our minds, whilst DD1 was home in between her last round of chemo and that stem cell transplant, knowing that her cancer was not curable with chemo alone, to stop. And we have known others, in different scenarios, who have chosen to do that. We do not judge them because there is a balance to be struck in such situations. For us, it was that she was too young to decide for herself (we have met others who were not), and punted for what might cure her, knowing it might kill her. It did, but we have no regrets in trying.

Ultimately, DD1 had a catastrophic failure of her immune system, the reason of which we nor anyone else will probably be able to discern in this lifetime, that caused her bone marrow to produce immature white blood cells to the detriment of her immune system. That's all. A disease that caused her bone marrow to produce the rogue white blood cells that are leukaemia.

She did not lose a battle. She died of the disease that is a vastly-underfunded form of cancer.

BishBashBoshBoo Sun 15-Sep-13 21:35:13

Expat I heartily agree with you. I don't have cancer. I have another illness.
All this positive thinking, fighting talk is awful. If I don't improve it feels as though its my fault. And that is so hard to live with.

I absolutely agree with your view that accepting the utter randomness of illness is much more helpful. Sometimes awful things happen to people who are no better nor worse (indeed less or more 'fighters') than others. Some get better and some sadly don't.

I am so sorry for your loss. It must be unbearable. You talk very well on the subject.

marriedinwhiteisback Sun 15-Sep-13 21:36:56

With love and hugs to everyone who has lost or might lose a loved one prematurely - whatever the reason.

daisydotandgertie Sun 15-Sep-13 21:49:03

My wonderful DH fought and fought his cancer with courage and determinaton - he really could not have been more positive or tenacious.

He died in April.

I'm with notjenkins. When there is talk of fighting cancer, of kicking its butt, of strength of will being enough to cure it, it does feel as though people are saying that he died because he didn't fight ENOUGH. That he wasn't brave enough, that had he only been a stronger, braver, more agressive man, he would still be here with me.

He was the bravest person I have ever known. Brave, strong and courageous. It didn't help him.

Raging against a diagnosis, the shock and the fear is understandable. Raging against the disease is pointless.

Scuttlebutter Sun 15-Sep-13 22:00:58

Another one here who heartily loathes talk of battles, wars, kicking cancer's butt, or any similar nonsense. Completely agree with Expat's post. There are plenty of other horrible diseases - cancer has no monopoly on suffering.

I speak as a cancer survivor, and as someone who in the past three years has lost a dear and close friend, my father, his brother (my uncle) and am burying another friend on Wednesday, all to cancer, and my cousin is terminally ill at the moment with a return of his cancer.

I don't feel angry at cancer - how can I feel anger at a mutating cell? It makes no sense. I do feel anger when I see stupid people continuing to dither about life saving vaccinations or not bother with their smear tests. I also feel angry that our health service still has poorer cancer outcomes than many other developed countries - we should be angry at not being able to access GP appts easily so concerns and worries can be quickly checked. We should be angry that important appointments for diagnostic tests take too long. We should be angry that cancer survivors have to struggle to get things like mortgages and insurance and jobs when they have come through their illnesses. I feel angry that when my lovely friend was discharged from hospital on Good Friday, the hospital pharmacy was CLOSED (FFS) so she couldn't get her essential pain meds.

All we can do is offer our love to friends and family, in sickness and in health and not waste the time we are given.

daisychain01 Sun 15-Sep-13 22:07:04

I am sad for anyone posting here who has been affected by cancer. (((( hugs x 1 million ))).

My DP was diagnosed with metastatic melanoma last May and had surgery and has been on a 6 monthly regime of scans and hospital visits of going for 5 years. So far so good.

Just to reassure people, we are beating cancer, I have been evangelical about early diagnosis with everyone I come into contact with. It saved DPs life being proactive and also keeping up with follow up consultations.

cancer should be very scared

daisychain01 Sun 15-Sep-13 22:09:49

Scuttle, sometimes, when suffering with cancer it can be psychologically helpful to people to see it as a proactive battle, it feels empowering. When my DP and I were dealing with his diagnosis and treatment last year, it helped to feel in control.

I think its whatever gets you through, no rights or wrongs. It isnt nonsense to the people it helps?

BoreOfWhabylon Sun 15-Sep-13 22:15:57

Wise words Daisy.

Jinsei Sun 15-Sep-13 22:16:36

This thread has made me cry. Like everyone else, I've lost loved ones to cancer, and a dear friend was diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast cancer earlier this year - she is 33 and has two young children. I agree that it's just a disease, and for some people, no amount of fighting will be enough. However, I can also understand the rage, and the desire to fight. Perhaps it's a natural instinct, to want to believe that we can fight it if only we try.

Some of the stories on here are heart-wrenching. I am so very, very sorry for all of your losses, and for those who are suffering with the disease right now.

HeartsTrumpDiamonds Sun 15-Sep-13 22:18:02

This "battle" wording / thinking is so ingrained. Sorry this might be a bit morbid. My dad has been given another 6 months or so (stage 4 prostate cancer metastasised everywhere) and when I was home in August I was looking at the draft for his obituary. I realised how many of these things start

"After a long and courageous battle..."
"He lost his fight..."
or whatever.

I really really really hope and pray that I will be able to write "Peacefully, at home, with his wife of 45 years by his side...."

peppapigmustdie Sun 15-Sep-13 22:19:16

Fuck off Cancer, you huge Bastard.

bassetfeet Sun 15-Sep-13 22:21:14

Thinking of Tunnocks the OP here who is no doubt in shock and in utter turmoil . Finding her way and the words that help her most at this point in her DHs cancer journey . The taking some control back feeling ? Anger .fight .....for sure I recognise those emotions when first dealing with this bastard disease sad.

Sorry tunnocks feels she had to leave the thread without some kind words re her own distress.

PresidentServalan Sun 15-Sep-13 22:26:35

As a pp said - cancer is a cunt.

I watched my cousin fight it when he was 15, only for it to reappear along with a heart condition which was caused by the effects of chemo (which had been in its early days) and it finally beat him at the age of 45.

trice Sun 15-Sep-13 22:26:39

I have cancer. It sucks.

I do "fight" it. I take all my meds, I exercise and try to eat right, I would paint myself blue and walk on my hands if I thought it would give me longer with my family! it is mainly down to things I can't control though. Sometimes shit happens.

I have the greatest sympathy for everyone who's lives have been devastated by this pointless glitch.

candycoatedwaterdrops Sun 15-Sep-13 22:27:32

bassetfeet That's not fair, tunnocks has had lots of love and support and kind words on her previous threads. People are disagreeing with her terminology, nothing more, nothing less. Everyone's feelings count.

ElliesWellies Sun 15-Sep-13 22:28:04

I bloody hate cancer. It makes me angry that life can be so unfair to some people.

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