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To worry about the Judges attitude in Levelle Verdict.

(306 Posts)
daiseehope Tue 10-Sep-13 15:24:01

I believe I need to state that this man has been found not guilty of all charges etc. I am an abuse victim who is taking a case to court. AIBU as apparently the Judge stated to the Jury prior to deciding that the sic "manner and appearance of the alleged victim and how she appears to you is vital". I don't think that's right.hmm hmm

meditrina Tue 10-Sep-13 15:29:02

Can you link the full statement?

What did he say, if anything, about the manner/appearance/etc of the then accused?

Judges statements usually go on for some time, and one sentence may not be a true representation. That's why I'd be interested to know more of what he said. For the credibility of each person is vital and the statement should over both. Did it?

hatsybatsy Tue 10-Sep-13 15:29:31

I didn't think the verdict was out yet?

I think in this case as it was just one persons word against another (ie no pohysical or corroborated evidence) then all the jury really have to go on is how Le Vell and his accuser appear to them? How she appears/seems to them is one thing - if the jury were specifically directed to consider her physical appearance then that would be wrong.

Youhaventseenme Tue 10-Sep-13 15:30:54


usuallyright Tue 10-Sep-13 15:32:01

I'm not surprised. I thought he was innocent.

cantspel Tue 10-Sep-13 15:32:23

He has been found not guilty on all counts.

MrsTerryPratchett Tue 10-Sep-13 15:33:23

I'm not surprised. I thought he was innocent. 'Not guilty', not 'innocent'. There is a difference.

cantspel Tue 10-Sep-13 15:35:46

If you find someone not guilty then they are innocent as brititish law doesn't have a verdict of not proven.

usuallyright Tue 10-Sep-13 15:36:26

Exactly cantspel.

Footface Tue 10-Sep-13 15:36:57

I thought the Judge said in his summing up that the jury should look to find him guilty. So I was surprised when he was found innocent

usuallyright Tue 10-Sep-13 15:37:45

I hope he has the full support of Coronation Street . He's going to need a lot of support to get through. Mud sticks and he will always have this dark cloud hanging over him.

xkittyx Tue 10-Sep-13 15:38:00

Scottish law in fact does have a Not Proven verdict.

daiseehope Tue 10-Sep-13 15:38:28

Hello OP's. Verdict on news a few minutes ago. I agree he has been proven Innocent and am not questioning the verdict as such. I am more concerned that the Jury should not be directed to take demeanour , appearance etc into account. Lots of people come across strangely under pressure.

Nancy66 Tue 10-Sep-13 15:38:54

From what I have read, the judge told the jury that their evaluation of the alleged victim was critical due to the lack of physical evidence.

I see nothing wrong in that.

Platinumstart Tue 10-Sep-13 15:41:01

In general and making no judgment on this case I can assure you as a defence lawyer that a not guilty verdict in no way equates to innocence.

cantspel Tue 10-Sep-13 15:41:42

considering the jury had been out less than half a day i would think that the verdict wasn't hard for them to reach and therefore there was not a lot of evidence to convict on.

pensandpaperclips Tue 10-Sep-13 15:41:45

What will happen to the alleged victim then? Will she be prosecuted for wasting so much time & money?

BeCool Tue 10-Sep-13 15:43:03

so if he is innocent will his accuser now be prosecuted for falsely accusing him of rape?

BeCool Tue 10-Sep-13 15:43:25

X post

daiseehope Tue 10-Sep-13 15:44:02

See what you're saying Nancy66, but as someone that's about to sit in the court and give evidence frankly it's terrifying. I worry tbh from the point of view of a "real" victim. I do not come across well under stress.

HavantGuard Tue 10-Sep-13 15:44:05

Not guilty may equal innocent in law. It doesn't necessarily equal innocent. No comment on this specific case but rape and sexual assault cases have very low conviction rates. That doesn't mean those rapes and assaults didn't happen.

daiseehope Tue 10-Sep-13 15:45:15

My thoughts exactly opsad

HavantGuard Tue 10-Sep-13 15:47:02

Is that a serious question Becool?

daiseehope Tue 10-Sep-13 15:47:06

And you're right, if it was a false allegation she should be charged. Surely that would make it a less likely occurrence. The police told me false allegations were actually very rare.

BeCool Tue 10-Sep-13 15:47:51

"If you find someone not guilty then they are innocent as brititish law doesn't have a verdict of not proven."

Whatever verdicts may exist, because a court finds you not guilty in no way at all means you are innocent. It could simply mean there was not sufficient evidence to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

If you did the act, a verdict of "not guilty" doesn't mean you didn't do it!!!

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