To demand a c-section?(69 Posts)
Quite willing to be told I am by the way.
I was really lucky to have an easy pregnancy, until the last 8 weeks or so, when I started to have severe period like pains and back pain. Went to the hospital to be checked out, and I found the midwives and doctor there very dismissive. They did an internal exam, (later finding out I have gbs) and then discharged me. When I asked what the cause of pain was or what they could do to help me, the doctor looked at me, sighed, and asked "why did you come today?" I responded "to make sure that me an my baby are alright". He replied "you're both fine, go home." I went home, feeling like a scolded little girl who had wasted his time.
The pain continued throughout the next few weeks, with husband asking me to go back, and me refusing, thinking that I was being hysterical, and that I must be exaggerating, until last night when it got too much, and I went back again. Waited 6 hours to be seen, was waiting in a room with other pregnant women, all happily chatting amongst themselves, looking radiant, and I was curled up in a corner, dripping with sweat and sobbing. Eventually got seen, at first the doctor thought the baby was breech, (no idea why that would cause pain) but got an ultrasound machine, and slapped it on, looked once, announced "head down" then took off, throwing the curtain open and leaving me fully exposed with no means of cleaning myself of the gel, and on full view to everyone. I was poked and prodded by about 5 different people, and then told that I probably have spd, and that they'll refer me for physio, but I probably won't get it in time, and that now they were going to give me an internal exam. I ended up just sobbing, and asking why they needed to, doctor said it was to check I wasn't in labour. I told them not to, and that if I was surely I'd know about it very shortly. They eventually discharged me at 2am. I went home and didn't sleep all night.
There were several other things that bothered me, the urine sample dropped on the floor that I was in that obviously belonged to the last person and which had not been cleaned, the monitor having old gel left on it from the last person and only wiped off with a tissue. The six hour wait, I know nurses are run off their feet, but the quality of care is really poor.
I'm now just really worried because I have read stories from women on the Internet who have spd, and also from a friend saying they got too exhausted to push and they ended up having an emergency c-section. I'm doubly worried about this because my baby is very large (8 pounds at 36 weeks) and this was a worry for me anyway. I'm having nightmares about her not being able to breathe and getting brain damage, and nobody is giving me any advice, or even information about what gbs is, or what spd is, or the risk of having a bigger baby, they're just telling me I have these things and leaving me to worry. I'm not bothered about myself, all I was is my baby to be safe and happy and healthy, and it seems the NHS is determined for her to be anything but.
Sorry to ramble on so much, but my question is, am I being unreasonable to have no faith whatsoever in the NHS's ability to get me through natural birth safely, and to demand a c-section?
jedward you have just made me think actually, I was in for three nights with ELC other ladies in NCT were in for much longer due to problems with vaginal delivery, one was in a week, another was in and out for two weeks and another is STILL going back to hospital!
Please do not panic. You have had no support during your pregnancy.
I would start making the hugest fuss, NOW NOW NOW. Get on phone to docs, appointment, saying all stuff you have said here, phone head of MW for your area, ditto, everything you have said here, and also your hospital get onto PALS and say you are lost and do not know who to turn too. Start LOTS OF COGS turning NOW.
Someone somewhere will listen to you.
I totally understand why you want a section and I believe it should be EVERY woman's right to ask for one if she wants one.
I cannot believe that someone people have read your desperate op, and said YABU!
Anyway, I had an ELC - maternal request with no problems. It was definalty the right choice for me, HOWEVER, I was terrified of infection. Even in the likes of the hospital you describe one would PRAY that surgery is one area where its clean, but on the ward maybe not.
THAT would be my main concern for you having one there.
When I had my first, my DH made me think we couldn't afford anything, the panic of the baby anyway...I cut so many corners and worried sick about money. We have far less money now with no 2 than no 1 and I have not cut corners this time.
IE are you sure you cant afford this taxi to the hospital or consider ways round getting to another hospital as its a one in a lifetime thing...As for changing now, of course you can!
Do not panic, help WILL be out there for you...somewhere...but people are busy....you have to kick up a fuss and make your voice heard.
In your position, I would (and indeed have) change hospitals.
Whether other people would want a CS is neither here not there. And a CS does not involve staying 'much longer'. The standard in the hospital I had a CS in last year was overnight, often ending up under 24 hours. Of course, there could be complications, but the same goes for any variety of childbirth.
Not reading the rest, as their opinions don't count!
I had a lovely all natural labour with DD1, wonderful!
DD2 was born by EMCS due to her distress, so doesn't count either!
DS, I was told he was 7-8lbs at 38 weeks. Lying bastards!! He was born 10lbs5oz and I ended up having an EMCS by general anaesthetic because playing 'the biggest turnip' was not working out. He has damage to his eye because of it.
You are in pain and struggling, you have been badly treated by the same team who will be there during your delivery, YANBU to demand CS!! I am not saying this lightly, knowing the difference between a naturla birth and a CS, in your case, I don't blame you!
Just keep reminding yourself, and your DH, that this isn't a question of manners, but of protecting the person that you're currently growing. Stand up for him or her if it's too difficult to do for yourselves? Unleash the tiger
Useful post above about the reason NOT to have a c section if you have SPD due to muscle damage. Have started using a wheelchair at 16wks this time. Also, not encouraging cubbie about duration of symptoms. Mine didn't go away after DS, but greatly improved (I could get out of bed without crying!). Was considering asking for a c section this time due to problems but your posts have changed my mind. I know a vaginal birth is better for baby and my recovery time too, so was only a fleeting thought, but thank you mnetters for your tips! OP, glad you are feeling better.
Do lots of research into the SPD and how best to manage it in labour - I do, sadly, know someone who had long term pelvic damage which was attributed to her birth being mismanaged. That's not in any way intended to frighten you - she is from overseas, didn't speak great english and so wasn't able to be a good advocate for herself.
So, make sure that you and DH know your safe limits of movement and that you aren't pushed beyond this - I spoke to a couple of midwives who didn't really seem to appreciate the impact it had on my movement, and it was only when I spoke to the most senior midwife that I got someone who took the time to actually get me moving about, up on a bed etc and try different positions.
The pelvic partnership had lots of info.
Thankyou all, you've all been so kind and I'm feeling a lot better about it. I got a bit hysterical, and pain and lack of sleep haven't helped.
I looked at doulas, but unfortunately I don't think that I can afford even a trainee one at this late stage, also the same with a taxi to another hospital, which I've now found out is over an hour away rather than 45 minutes. I'm also concerned about attending at another hospital further away because of the SPD, with needing antibiotics 4 hours before, I would rather go to the local hospital which is less than 5 minutes away, so I am fairly stuck on all fronts.
I'd like to thank the ladies pointing out that I was frightened of a lack of control. It's really strange but I hadn't considered that at all, but the minute I read what you said, it was like a puzzle piece fell into place. It's really helped knowing that that is where my fear is coming from and has really helped in coping with it.
I think my only option going forward is to write up a thorough birth plan, and try to be my own best advocate. I tend to be a bit of a people pleaser and don't like to put people out or anything, but I think I need to learn to stand up for myself a little bit more. My DH is even worse than me, he's been so completely sweet, and has taken really good care of me, but he's also terminally shy, I have tried to get him to stand up for me a bit more, but he just can't do it.
I don't think that I'm going to ask for a c section anymore, but will definately query the best way forward at my next midwife appointment rather than just blindly accepting what is given to me.
Any further advice very gratefully listened to, and thank you for the handholding. You're the best nest of vipers ever.
Erm I was speaking from my experience of requesting one because of a previous traumatic precipitate labour.
I got a big fat NO WAY. No amount of letters wrote, tears and pleading did any good.
I was told there wasn't a medical reason for my wanting one and therefore I wouldn't be getting one. End of story.
everlong Sat 07-Sep-13 18:09:31
widow you can't just request a CS. Well you can but for a real reason if you have any chance of being listened to.
Have you actually read the NICE guidance on ELCS?
Your answer is definite no, because the guidance says that you should be given one if you request one. The guidance focuses on women with anxiety but actually covers all requests for any reason...
The fact that most hospitals aren't following this (which is technically best practice now due to this NICE guidance) is beside the point here. There are some hospitals out there that are. The issue is more about a postcode lottery and the attitude of the hospital management and staff, rather than whether you can just ask for a CS.
Basically politics rather than a clinical reasons to refuse a request. Which is frankly, disgusting. I don't think anyone asks for surgery without having a bloody good reason to.
Please make sure you have a massive sticker on the front of your notes about the GBS and if you havent then find the biggest marker pen and write it across them yourself.
GBS is played down as being a tiny risk but it can have very serious consequences if not managed properly hence why other countrys routinely check for it.
My beautiful Ds is proof of what can happen when it goes wrong.
Have they checked you for other possible infections via blood tests if you are getting unexplained pain?
YANBU in wanting a CS but i'm sure if you felt happy with your care at a different hospital then you would trust them to deliver your baby naturally and wanting a CS would be a distant memory.
Oh that all sounds so crap. However I don't think a c section is the answer, you don't really want to be cut open and have to stay in for longer in the kind of hospital you have described. I'm not sure a homebirth is viable become because of the gbs and the need for antibiotics (please do get the antibiotics and don't go sticking garlic up your fanjo to get rid!) So I think the best option would be to change hospitals - as someone else said a 45 minute taxi journey is probably preferable to the sort of care you might get at your current hospital.
By the way, they don't always treat you for gbs in subsequent pregnancies. I had it with my first but this time round was told by my midwife that they don't screen for it even if you have had it before. They just monitor the baby more closely after the birth - I was
Luckily I got a letter from my lovely gp after I went to see her when I first found out ok was pg, asking me to come and get a swab. Tbh I know it sounds stupid but I almost hope it does come up so that it will be known about again and I won't have to worry about it.
If you don't need a section, you shouldn't have one, in my opinion. It's major surgery which can have complications, not a quick and easy birth option. It's unnessarily utilising valuable resources.
Your post reminds me why I'm glad I avoided hospitals and had a home birth.
widow you can't just request a CS. Well you can but for a real reason if you have any chance of being listened to.
' you don't need anyone's approval ' I think you'll find that she does tealteeth
You've got a baby in your uterus which needs to get out one way or another. In my book that's a good enough reason to request a CS.
Fight for a section if you can
I've had 2, wouldn't have it any other way and had neither of your problems
Oh & DD was only 7lbs 10oz in the end, a massive fuss about nothing!
I'm sorry you're having such a crap time but I really don't think a c section is needed under the circumstances you described.
I had SPD and a large baby. Was induced a week early. She was back to back and the epidural failed. Was a very stressful time & I ended up demanding a c-section because her heart rate wasn't ideal and I just felt so panicked and out of control.
I ended up staying in hospital for 5 days, could barely move for months and it still gets sore now. My tummy looks gross, I have a pouch and loads of water has been retained around the incision area so my belly looks like the Himalayas.
I frequently wish I had just let nature take its course and not panicked so much about everything! I think you're just getting yourself worked up and it's hardly surprising considering how poorly you've been treated.
Ignore those saying you're being unreasonable to ask for a c section on this basis. They don't know what they're talking about.
You're weakening your argument by talking about the dirty hospital - though the lack of staff is certainly an issue if you might wish to request an emergency c section to avoid forceps and stirrups.
My own feeling is that there are risks both ways and you can really only evaluate them and decide for yourself. If you go for a c section, you'll be cutting through muscles that will be important in recovery. If you don't, there's the chance that you'll be placed in an unsafe birthing position. The one thing I don't think you need to worry about as a result of your spd is the baby. You don't have a higher chance of staff not getting the baby out in time.
Most importantly, it's very important than you receive manual therapy before the birth and start strengthening the muscles that will support the pelvis, as this will help with the birth and help you recover faster. I would not accept that you won't see a specialist physio, as you are meant to be referred urgently. In the circumstances, I suggest that you call Pelvic Partnership, as suggested above, and ask for help finding a specialist physio local to you. You will have to pay but I don't think you have the option of not, unless you can get the NHS to perform in time.
Try not to worry about the GBS... A lot of women have it. It's just a bacteria that lives in the vagina. It's not sexually transmitted or mean that you're dirty.
Once you've been diagnosed with it you're treated as if you have it every pregnancy. You are required intravenous penicillin every four hours when in labour, and watched carefully if your waters break before labour starts. They would consider inducing you if that happens or at least giving you some oral antibiotics. Takes about four hours to work. Remember though, a function of your waters breaking is to wash your vagina out so if you happen to labour quickly chances are you would naturally be protected by the waters, especially if they break late in the labour. Afterwards the baby's temperature would be observed. Not sure exactly what your hospitals policy is regarding GBS monitoring of a newborn, but it's a reasonable question to ask.
With your SPD pain, be careful to be aware of your leg positioning if you have an epidural in, as you will be less likely to feel any over stretching of your legs. Maybe you can ask DH to keep an eye out for that, and for him to be aware if you are holding the same position too long or that the way your legs/hips especially if they don't look like they are in a "natural" position.
I truly do not think a c section is the answer to your concerns, but know that pregnancy, especially late pregnancy makes you worry more than usual and whilst your concerns are entirely valid and reasonable and you deserve the answers; you may not be reacting to them how you usually would. I am too embarrassed to comment about some of the things I thought/said/did from about 38 weeks onwards of pregnancy but let me tell you I cringe now . I am saying that with genuine care and hope you don't take any offense to it.
Take care have a nice bath and try to get a good rest before the busyness of life with a newborn begins.
Reading that the first thing I want to say is slow down and breathe.
Your anxiety levels have hit the roof, which is not helping. Its normal to worry but honestly try to relax first. Then make a plan, try writing down your concerns and making a list of questions to ask.
Trying to keep your thoughts clear will help you to control the controllable and not fixate on the uncontrollable.
Then if a c-section is what you consider best, by all means go for it.
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