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to think about shopping friend of friend for undeclared income?

(136 Posts)
FatAssPantaloons Fri 06-Sep-13 22:17:55

Is this really snide of me?

Friend of friend has several cash in hand cleaning jobs. Her three DCs are at school so she takes on as much work as she can while they're there. No idea how much she makes in a week but know she charges clients 10 pounds an hour. She works very hard - is one of these people who never seems to pause, is always buzzing wth nervous energy, working or looking for work.

Recently found out that she also claims tax credits as though she were a SAHM. All of her cleaning work is under the table - no tax paid but also claiming benefits as though she wasn't working.

Her husband has a full time low paid job, and they rent a small house in a wealthy area, in a rural place so they each need to run a car, so I can totally see why they need every penny they can get. But, she's defrauding, isn't she?

It's none of my business, right? Or is it?

SilverStreak7 Mon 09-Sep-13 14:17:57

Its none of your business ..

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 08-Sep-13 10:29:53


1) you sound very unpleasant
2) you clearly don't understand how legal aid actually works.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 08-Sep-13 10:27:46

I wouldn't simply because you don't know if it is true.

As MrsD has pointed out, malicious reporting a can be very distressing and damaging to the person reported.

I can see why the idea of it annoys you OP and don't think anybody is entitled to steal to benefit themselves. However without cast iron facts it's just gossip and could be awful for this woman and her family. If she's going to start declaring anyway, just let her do that.

dirtyface Sun 08-Sep-13 10:17:42

agree with moanalot

passmetheprozac Sun 08-Sep-13 08:01:52

See this would piss me off. I earn just over minimum wage, and I pay my tax and national insurance every month.

She is working, earning and not paying tax. Where is that fair? To echo what an earlier poster said. If everyone paid what they should do in tax then everyone's tax bill would be reduced.

SubliminalMassaging Sun 08-Sep-13 07:34:50

you sound charming thecook. hmm

RoxyFox211 Sun 08-Sep-13 00:57:52


VaultFullOfTwizzlers Sun 08-Sep-13 00:43:16

Humphy face directed at pp not you obvs.

VaultFullOfTwizzlers Sun 08-Sep-13 00:42:12

Legal Aid is no longer available for people on low incomes thecook which makes the act of reporting even more reprehensible imo.

So people go to prison and children end up in care with ALL the associated costs and dubious outcomes for care and prison-leavers and the reporters genuinely think they are saving taxpayers money for something which may have been twenty pounds a week more than tax credits would have given.

Compared to the thousands per week it takes to keep someone in jail or care.

All righty hmm

thecook Sun 08-Sep-13 00:33:17

I loved my lawyer though. Charged lots of £££££ which the tax payer is paying for. Love legal aid

thecook Sun 08-Sep-13 00:31:19

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

VaultFullOfTwizzlers Sat 07-Sep-13 23:50:25

Good post, moanalot.

I detest this culture of spying on and reporting those closest to you out of jealousy at the perceived riches they may have when this government is laughing at you for being so fucking gullible because you are ignoring the bigger picture.

moanalot Sat 07-Sep-13 23:41:27

Good heavens life is hard enough without people shopping people for alleged frauds. It's so hard to get by these days for the majority of people. It's got to the stage now that even with 2 incomes it's not enough to pay all the bills. The cost of living is at an all time high, gas and electric going up again this winter. Wages are not going up in line with inflation except for the greedy MPs who inure themselves from the worst austerity measures I've ever known with their bumper pay packets. A few years ago the country was being encouraged to "shop a benefit cheat" by the government when it emerged that they were fiddling on a grand scale with their fake expenses claims. The pure hypocrisy and greed was mind blowing. What made the whole thing worse was the fact that hardly any got prosecuted for such blatent fraud. Your friend of a friend might or might not be fiddling her taxes but if she is you can bet that she won't have 2 homes and be on about 70 grand a year. She might do it for necessity, the MPs did it for out and out greed. So no, I certainly wouldn't shop her, save your disdain for someone more worthy of it.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 07-Sep-13 18:48:40

Is the employer not obliged to report it via real time?

Sparkletshirt Sat 07-Sep-13 17:41:41

If she has 3 months to declare then perhaps she hasn't done anything wrong? Maybe she's worked hard to see how much she can earn and thought right, this works, I'll stick at it and fill in the paperwork. Dh and I actually get less tax credits than we would if I were working and I've been looking for a job for ages now, but there's been nothing that fits around dh's hours.

pigletmania Sat 07-Sep-13 17:31:50

I just could not

expatinscotland Sat 07-Sep-13 17:27:06

I'm not condoning it, but I wouldn't shop someone unless I personally were 100% certain the person was in fact a fraud, because I know from others' experiences it's not simply a case of 'Well, if you don't have anything to hide, you have nothing to worry about.' They cut you off asap and the onus is on you to prove your innocence, not the other way round. Until then, the credits stop, possibly tipping innocent people into debt or homelessness. All over some gossip?

I mean, get real! If she's dumb enough to even tell a 'friend' she's not declaring, which who knows if she is, she's bound to soon be caught without the OP.

But personally, I'd cut this so-called mutual friend a huge berth because hanging out with gossips and shit-stirrers is never a good thing.

DontmindifIdo Sat 07-Sep-13 17:15:14

I think the bit that's worst is she's not just not paying her fair share into the pot via tax, but she's also taking more out that her fair share. If she was just going off plan, not paying tax but not taking anything, I'd be more sympathetic, but taking other people's money knowing you aren't entitled to it? Scummy behaviour. Report.

CatThiefKeith Sat 07-Sep-13 14:56:02

So, if she wasn't claiming tax credits, would it be ok then?

Dh works full time, and DJ's four nights per week. If he didn't pay tax on both jobs we'd be able to afford a holiday for the first time ever, but we do, because it's bloody illegal not to!

To be honest, it'd be nice if he could earn a living wage on either one of those jobs, so he could give up the other! sad

ShellyBoobs Sat 07-Sep-13 14:38:01

While you're about it also report Amazon, Vodaphone, Boots...

I don't understand your point, unless your point is that if one person/company doesn't pay enough tax, then it's a free for all and everyone is entitled to steal from the government by whatever means they can?

Anyway, OP, I agree that you should grass on the cheating cunt.

When she's found out she deserves everything that's thrown at her, the same as any other person or company that's cheating deserves to be punished.

You really can't take a consensus of opinion from MN as its make up is so incredibly left-wing it bears no resemblance to the real world.

Mumoftwoyoungkids Sat 07-Sep-13 14:11:28

The problem with people working as cleaners undeclared is that they are able to undercut those who do declare, have insurance etc.

In time it will only be possible to work profitably as a cleaner if you are willing to cheat the benefit / tax system and not have insurance.

Which is rubbish for the honest mum who is brilliant at cleaning and needs a flexible job.

And not great for people who employ cleaners as the only have the option of dishonest people.

Having said that I would not report as:-

1. Your information is not necessarily reliable
2. You need a combination of courage and ruthlessness to report and I don't have it.

kali110 Sat 07-Sep-13 13:57:48

Crumble , really not everybody thinks its right, i dont at all. Its disgusting. I dont understand people who moan about bankers, Amazon etc when cheating the benefits is still stealing. Yes somebody maybe chesting just to make bit extra as theyre struggling, however there are people worse off who arent stealing.
This is reason theyre getting so strict with benefits now. Its the people who are genuinely to sick to work who i feel sorry for.

perhaps i'm being a bit thick, but I don't get why it is assumed WFTC is just based on her husbands wage - we both work, me FT, DH PT, and get WFTC, based on our household income.

a cleaner will have loads of expenses I would guess, so she may well be declaring that she is working, but with no, or very little, income from it.

we, and you, don't have enough facts to report anyone for anything.

morethanpotatoprints Sat 07-Sep-13 13:27:11

Of course most people don't agree with frauding the system and as I posted up thread my dsis served a prison sentence for this.
I didn't have a lot of sympathy for her dishonesty but relented obviously when she was away and I found her now xdh had filled in the forms, passed them to her and told her to sign.
Still, she should have checked them before she did.

You don't know what the consequences are when you report a fraudster, you may think they deserve everything they get, but it can harm children if the parents have to serve a sentence.
Unless you want to be responsible for something like this, you should let somebody else report or presume eventually they will be caught.

This is irrespective of the fact that there are so many other people and big business frauding far more and apparently nothing happens to them.

Sixtiesqueen Sat 07-Sep-13 13:21:23

I don't resent her not paying tax but I do resent her claiming benefits as though she wasn't working.

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