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To think if he abandoned first kids, he's not worth knowing?

(76 Posts)
WibblyWoman Thu 05-Sep-13 13:20:15

My friends DP has a 5, 6 and 8 year old from a previous relationship whom he hasn't seen for 3 years. His ex stopped contact, he hasn't fought to reinstate it. My friend has a 2 year old with him. I can't help thinking he's the same age her DPs youngest was when he stopped having contact and that if they split its likely her ds will be abandoned too. She acknowledges that this concerns her too. I told her I wouldn't be with my DP if I thought he were incapable of abandoning his child(ren.) I appreciate I may have been unreasonable to share my opinion, but that isn't an unreasonable opinion to hold is it?

froubylou Fri 06-Sep-13 12:54:18

Dahlen they shouldn't have used the pepper spray and they shouldn't have arrested him and kept him in for 12 hours either. However the ex had told them he had a knife on him so they used extreme force to overwhelm him. He was black and blue, denied medical attention and kept in on her say so as she was 'frightened' of him.

When his brief arrived the next day at the police station he played merry hell and advised DP to file an official complaint against him. But this was the final nail in the coffin for him and he just wanted to see his kids at the end of the day.

I admit at the end of the day I was as sceptical as anyone at his story and thought he was exaggerating it all. However his late mother and his sister both tell the same story and the fact he was on AD's for 2 years afterwards sorts of backs up what he says.

As the DC are both now teenagers we have tried to track them down but the mother remarried and moved away, her family he knew are all now either moved away or deceased.

My sisters partner is also going through a similar situation at the moment for contact with his little girl. So far they have paid a 4 figures out in sols fee's, paid for drug and alcohol tests for both of them as the mother as accused both him and my dsis of being alcoholics and drug addicts (they aren't) and have secured 1 hours supervised visit at a contact centre once a week which the mother doesn't always turn up to. He has a son from a different relationship (he's now 10) who he has every weekend and most of the school holidays are spent at my sisters MIL during the day and with them overnight as his ex works F/T and it saves her the childcare costs. Plus he pays her £50 per week maintaince and buys him all his uniform, shoes and clothes.

So you can't say he is a bad father either? And the ex with the little girl was apparantly on the depo jab when she 'accidently' got pg. So he's not some numpty who goes around shirking his responsibilities either.

There are some useless wankers out there who abandon their DC. I was brought up by a stepdad as my own father did just that and fucked off to live in a kibutz when I was a few months old. My ex (although he has contact) doesn't pay a penny to the CSA as the contact order he has states that DD is with him more than 52 nights a year (she isn't) and he is on the dole. And has been for 7 years. And the only reason we went to court 3 times was as a bullying tactic from him to try and control me still. The court cases stopped when I advised my sols I would no longer be attending for that very reason.

So I can see both sides of the story when it comes to breakdowns in relationships. If you had listened to my ex he would have you believe I was denying contact (I never, ever did) and being delibrately obstructive by not letting her go for overnight visits to a houseshare of 3 men who I didn't know from adam when she was 2 years old. And then when she was 3 I was obstructive again when I said that the contacts had to be at a weekend or after school! And then when she was 4 I was an unfit mother because I had a new relationship and took her on holiday abroad.

Every relationship breakdown is different and complex. So you can not tar all men who don't see their DCs with the same brush.

jammiedonut Fri 06-Sep-13 11:02:11

Definitely a hard one, and not a thought I would have shared given they already have a child. Besides, some things aren't as black and white as you may think. Yes, some fathers are fuckwits, my own included as he couldn't be arsed to pay or see his own children and simply set up home with someone else and had a 'new' family. My stepfather on the other hand was married to the most spiteful, vile and vindictive women I have ever met. He left her because of the emotional abuse he was suffering and has had to stand by and watch as she systematically poisons her children's minds against their father to the point that they will not even acknowledge him when he is walking down the street. He has been on their doorstep every other weekend for as long as I remember (family friend before settling down with my mum) go try and see them to no avail. He also gives £80,000 a year to support them, plus pensions and bonuses. He took the wife to court to demand access, but, and this is the kicker, because the kids don't want to know, he has no rights.
It's very sad. He is one of the kindest and most generous people and absolutely worth knowing. You can't tar everyone with the same brush.

Dahlen Fri 06-Sep-13 10:45:26

Maybe it should be rephrased to say there is no excuse for not trying to maintain contact, rather than there is no excuse for not having contact.

I don't accept that inability to afford court fees is an acceptable excuse. I don't accept that "it's too hard" for either the child or the father to maintain contact and that it's better for all concerned if he walks away. I don't accept that if you don't see your child you shouldn't have to pay maintenance. I don't accept that being told to stick to an agreed schedule of contact is the same thing as "she's being obstructive and won't let me see my kids". All of which are excuses trotted out by lots of NRPs.

However, in the case of froubylou's DP, the effort was clearly made. I think that will speak for itself when the DC are older. Her DP will have a lot less explaining to do than someone who never even bothered to go to court in the first place, and throughout all that he lived up to his financial responsibilities. I'm interested as to why CS was used though, as 'use of force' by a police officer has to be justified and another person's statement (especially an Xs) that someone was going to attack her wouldn't normally be considered strong enough.

TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras Fri 06-Sep-13 10:31:39

Better for the 'emotional well-being' of the children for the 'father' to take the easy option and walk away - I almost died laughing at that hmm.

My father walked away when I was 7. Never paid a penny maintenance even though he received a large lump sum of money directly after the divorce, never went to court as it was 'too hard' and he did not want to cause us distress and now 30 years later after no contact for all that time, does not understand why I can't move on and play happy families. My mother was abusive to him apparently and it was too stressful (so her extreme physical and emotional abuse to me was OK then). He did'nt want any arguments so went onto bring up and financially support someone else's DCs instead hmm.

Yes, men like this are feckless, pathetic wankers and I could not waste a minute on them. Problem is that they may think their DCs are OK and it's better for them but a lot of the emotional pain of the 'abandonment' does not surface until adulthood when those DCs go on to have their own families.

Rufus43 Fri 06-Sep-13 09:20:09

hardboiled he is a fantastic hands on dad of a 14, 11 and 10 year old, he has however seen the pain the relative has gone through. And I'm sure that if he was in that position and I was not letting him see the children and would keep taking me to court for access. Our relative does not have the money for that

I quite agree that some men are complete and utter wankers and I have not seen anyone argue otherwise, but some women are complete and utter bitches.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 06-Sep-13 08:39:37

We currently have a site user whose ex is on bail for raping her and abusing her in front of the child has been abusive towards the child won't use car seats or feed the child and she has been threatened with transference of residency

It does happen and its not infrequent.

RedHelenB Fri 06-Sep-13 08:09:28

mothers can be punsihed for witholding contact & sometimes custody can be awarded to the dad if the courts see that she is not allowing court ruled contact so there is NO excuse for a dad (or mum if they are the NRP) not to see the child. And NOTHING at all to stop them from asking the school to send reports, lists of dats (so casn go to parents evenings, school plays etc

Dahlen Fri 06-Sep-13 07:27:25

The trouble with this is that it is a highly emotive issue. There are trends but enough exceptions that you cannot categorically state anything. Just as the overwhelming majority of domestic abuse is male on female but there is a significant amount of female on male abuse too, the majority of men who lose contact with their children are selfish bastards but there are enough who have lost contact for legitimate reasons that you can't just assume that.

If you were going to make an arbitrary decision based on statistical probability, you'd go with the "he's not worth knowing" approach, but it would be far better to listen and form an opinion based on other indications of that man's character. IME the sort of person capable of walking out on their children will display other selfish character traits as well. I rather suspect that this is exactly the case in the OP's friend's situation; but for some reason she is only now starting to recognise it - hence her asking the OP for her opinion.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 06-Sep-13 07:22:44

IME (but granted my experance is coming from my work) I see a lot of nrp's dads as well as mums who use the court system as a legally sanctioned method of abuseing ex's with very little regard for any children.

I also see quite a high proportion of nrp's who obtain contact orders but never stick to them because the only reason for going to court in the first place was to do battle.

calmingtea Fri 06-Sep-13 06:42:00

YANBU to hold that opinion as long as you don't pass it on unsolicited. Personally I would not touch a man who had no contact with their children, I could not respect him. I am sure there are a myriad of good excuses out there, but at the end of the day 'my kids will know the truth when they are adults' is not a good one.

BoneyBackJefferson Fri 06-Sep-13 06:18:43


I am not saying that what happened to you isn't true, it (IMHO it happens far to often)

But it isn't the only truth, there are obstructive RPs out there who do everything in their power to stop the NRP having contact.

froubylou Fri 06-Sep-13 05:28:37

So in my DPs situation what should he have done? Carried on? Tried to enforce the contact order? Taken the kids against their mothers will? Gone toe to toe with the new partner in the driveway?

When I went to court with my ex I asked my solicitor what would happen if I didn't agree with what was ordered and denied the contact or moved away. Ultimately I could be found in contempt of court. But it would be very unlikely and only in extreme circumstances that a mother would have action taken against her for not complying with the order.

Mothers do sadly use their children as pawns in a relationship breakdown. Just because she is a mother it doesn't mean that she will always do the right thing.

whysoglum Fri 06-Sep-13 04:38:58

Why no go after the feckless bitches who stop contact rather than these apparent arsehole men. They wouldn't have to battle in court if someone wasn't holding a child to ransom.

DanicaJones Fri 06-Sep-13 02:24:52

If my husband took the kids away and did all he could to prevent contact I know I'd not stop fighting for contact because I know what it would do to them to know I'd stopped trying.

DanicaJones Thu 05-Sep-13 22:53:27

No I can't link to evidence. Do you have evidence you can link to that it does no harm for someone to stop trying to see their child then?

FreudiansSlipper Thu 05-Sep-13 22:41:42

i can not think of anything that would stop me from trying to see ds

not that i think i would ever be in that situation but why would i give up when he means everything to me

OnTheBottomWithAWomensWeekly Thu 05-Sep-13 22:25:35

Can you? nope. You can convince yourself, but everyone knows its a load of self serving rubbish.
One third of divorced families in the UK have no contact with the father. How many of them are in bitter custody battles? not that many. Cop yourself on.

ThatsNontents Thu 05-Sep-13 22:23:00

Can you link to the evidence for that please.

DanicaJones Thu 05-Sep-13 22:22:26

I think a father should carry on battling through the courts so that the children know he didn't stop trying to see them. I think knowing he stopped trying to see them is very damaging.

ThatsNontents Thu 05-Sep-13 22:22:06

Because of the bitterness it can generate between the separating couple and the problems that arise when children are used as pawns.

We had a totally amicable split, didn't need the courts, get on well and the children are happy, but I'm aware that all separations aren't like that.

OnTheBottomWithAWomensWeekly Thu 05-Sep-13 22:20:59

It rarely causes harm to children for their father to attempt contact. You think the large number of divorced fathers who lose contact with their children do it because they really have no choice and its all for the good of the children? BULLSHIT.

Yep, its mostly because they are feckless wankers.

Zoe999 Thu 05-Sep-13 22:19:18

How does a court case harm the children? myself and my x have been through court three times in total and the children didn't know where I was those days.

ThatsNontents Thu 05-Sep-13 22:16:47

Just so I understand a father, no matter what halm it will cause the children, should carry on battling through the courts.

And all fathers who don't see their children are doing it because they're feckless wankers?

hardboiledpossum Thu 05-Sep-13 22:11:37

Rufus, he clearly isn't that a great a father if he said that.

OnTheBottomWithAWomensWeekly Thu 05-Sep-13 22:06:40

ah bullshit. The brave man that doesn't even try to see his children, don't make me laugh. Some women just make excuses for the men in their lives because they need to beleive he isn;t a complete wanker.

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