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To think if you're a fan of the bedroom tax

(276 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

NicholasTeakozy Tue 27-Aug-13 22:05:38

That means you are at best a spunktrumpet and at worst a cunt. Watch this short video and see what it's doing. angry sad

BoffinMum Wed 28-Aug-13 17:22:22

BrokenSunglasses, you're just a victim of the myth perpetrated by the super wealthy and the political classes that any investment in infrastructure constitutes an affront to the taxpayer in some way. If we can afford quite literally billions of pounds for the legal and professional costs associated with academicisation of schools, for example, or the creation of hospital trusts, or indirect subsidies for companies via profits accrued through private sector outsourcing, then I think we can afford to put a roof over the heads of our fellow citizens, many of whom either have paid taxes or will pay taxes in the future, I hasten to add. And even if they don't, I would rather they had some sort of reasonable accommodation than come and burgle my house or mug me as a means to achieving this.

HappyMummyOfOne Wed 28-Aug-13 17:22:54

Its the old abreviation for benefits. Lots of landlords mortgages and insurance policies wont allow renting to those on benefits due to the higher risks.

Sadly rating factors show its likely more damage will occur by a benefits tennant than one paying their own rent and the council wont help with one of their properties until you legally get evicted leaving the poor landlord with court costs etc. Its not hard to see why many wont take them as they are running a business not a charity.

BrokenSunglasses Wed 28-Aug-13 18:08:52

We can't afford those things though, that's why we have a deficit!

Misspixietrix Wed 28-Aug-13 18:41:33

Crowler DSS = Department of Social Security ~

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 28-Aug-13 19:03:41

Interestingly Oldham is a labour majority council - many councils have waived the bedroom tax because it is not feasible (there are not enough smaller properties for people to move in anyway)

This is incorrect and they haven't. They are not allowed to waive it or decide not to do it as it is now the law, they have to follow it and they have no choice. Any social landlord found to be not enforcing it would have there entire HB gov subsidy removed so no, no LA has decided to waive it or not comply with it.

There are a few exemptions that apply to over 61's and some children with disabilities (but no adults with disabilities) hard to house sex offenders.

They have a few legal opportunities to reclassify a property as having less bedrooms if the landlord has permanently adapted one of the original bedrooms so it can no longer be used as one, and a hand full of other situations but all building based not circumstances.

The only other option they have is to use the DHP/DHF to make up a short fall but they do not have to and most LA's have a circumstance priority allocation for that.

But they do not have the option to just ignore it.

Talkinpeace Wed 28-Aug-13 19:17:26

for my sins I read a fair bit of council literature
redesignation is going on wholesale - especially for people whose homes have been adapted for disabilities
because moving the tenant is not an option

I agree with boffin that five year lease reviews woud be a good move
and bringing in five year tenancies in the private sector (as is the case in mainland Europe) would be good too

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 28-Aug-13 19:21:41

Talkin that's because they are allowed to reclassify under those circumstances its one of the extreamly limited reasons they can use.

Your original post implied it was something being done in houses with more usable correctly designated bedrooms with no good reason other than to avoid the HB reduction. And this is not true or even legal.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 28-Aug-13 19:27:59

To the poster upthread saying about under 12's and above ground floor flats that's a local thing not a national one.

More LA's do allocate above ground/first floor flats to families with young children than don't unless of course the tenant or a family member have a health condition that would prohibit them from using stairs.

Viviennemary Wed 28-Aug-13 19:42:50

I think 5 year reviews would be a really good idea. With people with disabilities and the very elderly being treated sympathetically. That would be common sense. IMO anyway.

Portofino Wed 28-Aug-13 20:50:02

I'm in continental Europe and have a 9 year lease. This is standard. The landlord can only end my tenancy if he wants t live in the property himself. As long as we pay the rent/don't trash the place of course. Private renting is highly regulated here. Why can than this not be set up in the UK.? It stops people doing it to make a quick buck.

Misspixietrix Wed 28-Aug-13 21:09:46

Potrafino apparently Rent Control would deter landlords from buying so I've read and some other crap reasons are given about it not being beneficial ~

Talkinpeace Wed 28-Aug-13 21:12:25

A lot of the UK tenancy laws date back to the days of Rachmann : and they have reached a point where neither landlords nor tenants benefit in the UK.
A 5 year medium term tenancy would be a major step in the right direction for both parties.
Rent control is almost impossible to bring back in where it has stopped - New York tries and fails

Misspixietrix Wed 28-Aug-13 21:13:13

Sure sock will be along soon to explain it more eloquently than I do though Portofino ~

utreas Wed 28-Aug-13 21:13:40

The problem with rent control is that its a measure on the demand side which disincentivises supply. The reason for a shortage of housing is a lack of supply relative to demand so taking measures that depress supply are highly counterproductive.

motownmover Wed 28-Aug-13 21:20:27

Genuine question would it be possible for pple to knock out walls??

Talkinpeace Wed 28-Aug-13 21:23:05

rented houses ......

Portofino Wed 28-Aug-13 21:49:40

It's not about rent control. Rent here goes up according to indexation only. Not the landlords whim. But it does go up.

Portofino Wed 28-Aug-13 21:50:52

It's more a question of a secure tenancy. 6 months is nothing. 9 years makes it your home.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 28-Aug-13 22:03:31

Sure sock will be along soon to explain it more eloquently than I do though Portofino

Something to do with people wanting to make a quick buck. But personally I think portofino's way is a good one.

Re knocking down walls. Well in theory you could but in practise the LL would not give permission if you didn't have permission its a tenancy breach so you get evicted. If it was being approved solely to get around the HB deduction then it could leave the LA wide open to sanction because it makes no sense to do.

siezethenight Wed 28-Aug-13 22:33:54

The law is mad - if you have 2 girls and a boy (or 2 boys and a girl!) And one girl is 20 years of age, the law says that 20 year old is an adult - she is, quite right. But it says she is no longer allowed to share with her sister as, as an adult the law says she has to have a room of her own. The council won't allocate a three bed to this family, it has to be a 4 bed or a three bed with an extra reception room downstairs to class as a bedroom.
Why can they not share? They are sisters, girls? Grew up together. Baffles me.

Elderly people can't leave their houses as there are no 1 bed houses to be found (not here in Wales anyhow, absolutely none - there were none when this law came in) and no places in sheltered accommodation for them to move to. Sheltered accommodation in many instances costs more in rent than a 2 bed council house. My Grandmother is in a sheltered flat and the rent is terribly high for what are basically, elderly people living on a pension. They can't go out and 'work harder' to help themselves. My Nan is 94 so I don't think her getting a wee part time job is on the cards... She is paying more rent herself for this flat than she ever did her house. She's far, far safer in the flat than on her own in a house but the rent is awfully high. My Nan says that she served in the war, her brother died in the war, her husband saw actual fighting in the war - all to give David Cameron the freedom he has today to treat her like shit - her actual words - I really, really love my Nan! She does not mince about, she's right out with it!

sweetestcup Fri 30-Aug-13 09:39:01

tenant slashes his wrists because he was driven to despair by the bedroom tax

internationallove985 Fri 30-Aug-13 09:52:43

I had tears in my eyes about the poor gentleman who hanged himself. This government is making life almost unbearable for a lot of people. Anytime they're looking to make cuts and save money, it always seems to be the poor and vulnerable that are targeted. Are they not brave enough to target those who can fight back (namely bankers). The public inclusive of those on benefits did not cause the utter mess we're in, so why are the public paying. (in some cases even with their lives, as heard in the video. xx

SaucyJack Fri 30-Aug-13 10:00:22

He didn't slit his wrists properly for chrissakes.

Just a media stunt.

themaltesefalcon Fri 30-Aug-13 10:14:04

I'd like to give this country a good shake.

There is no more money.

There is no more money.

There is no more money.

Repeat to yourself as necessary until it sinks in.

HappyMummyOfOne Fri 30-Aug-13 10:26:37

As well as there is no more money to fund spare rooms for people not paying their own rents its NOT a tax!

Reading the latest link, there is no mention of anything he has done to try and move, raise the extra rent or apply for help. It seems a publicity stunt more than anything.

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