AIBU , or rather were we BU?

[Lara2]

Will try not to drip feed. In a nutshell, DSis bought a car for £500 (was a bargin) from someone I know from dog walking, yesterday. Everything running fine. She drives about 10 miles today including going round to DF's for family lunch. When she tries to leave, car has developed a fault and she can't drive it. DF suggests she phones the guy, she does and he comes round. DSis asks if he will return her money as she's had the car barely 24 hours. He says no, but offers her £200 towards the repair which is very fair. She accepts and he says he will give me the cash in the morning.
The AIBU bit is that while we were talking to him, DF and my DP were standing against the garden wall, just being there not saying anything. I'll say now that neither of them appears intimidating in any way, but DSis and I felt that just by being there (bringing the total to 4 of us and 1 of him), it was intimidating and he felt obliged to offer the money towards the repair. Were we BU to ask for the money back?
My sister feels guilty, but I felt that she'd had the car less than 24 hours and if we hadn't looked at the car til Monday, the fault would have happened anyway and he'd be paying for it so he could sell it. Obviously, if it had been a week later or longer, we wouldn't have asked.
Hope this isn't too muddled.

[LittleprincessinGOLDrocks]

What is the fault?

[Sirzy]

I think if you buy a second hand car then it is up to you to check it over and you buy as seen. I think offering to pay nearly half of the cars value is very generous of him.

[Hassled]

You were damned right to have two random men leaning menacingly against a wall while you sorted this out. You may have still had the £200 offered to you without them, but it won't have hurt.

[Lara2]

The fault is in the automatic transmission - think it may be a bit pricey. Sis did say that if it was less than £200 to fix she would give him back the difference.

[SugarSpunSisters]

Transmission problems, especially related to an auto gearbox can easily cost £2000, never mind £200.

[PrettyKitty1986]

You were not bu to try your luck for a refund as the buyer. I would have too.

The seller is being amazingly generous though IMO. A second hand car is sold as seen from a private seller. Assuming this was a problem that could not have been foreseen, the seller would have been completely reasonable to tell you to jog on. Tbh, had I been the seller that's just what I would have done. Bad luck and all that but no refund/repair contribution from me.

[bearleftmonkeyright]

Ywnbu, he sold you a lemon. You had the car a day.

[Spottypurse]

Caveat emptor. Buyer beware. You're lucky he stumped up anything at all.

[bearleftmonkeyright]

I hope I never buy a second hand car off you spotty.

[Spottypurse]

If he's a private seller then it's your look out.

Legally he didn't have to stump up a penny.

That's the risk when you buy second hand off a private individual. I don't see what's wrong about pointing that out?

[namechangeforthispost864269]

Hmmm well he has offered the money now so I'd take it and forget about it.

My dad bought me and dh a car from someone he knew and it needed £500 of work on it in the first week.
My dad mentioned it to the guy and he felt awkward about it but never offered any money back which was fair enough (i suppose) as we'd bought it off him as sold but if he had offered money towards repairs I would have accepted it tbh as from his reaction I think he knew there was a fault when he sold it to my dad in good faith as they were friends.

I think if this guy was quick to offer money back then he probably knew there was a fault...id not feel bad accepting about the money ... Also judt read someone has said repair may cost 2k if that's the case I'd scrap the car and if the cost of scrapping plus the 200 pounds he offered isn't as much as you dsis paid I'd be cheeky enough to ask for the difference as he has knowing sold you a dud

[bearleftmonkeyright]

Well she drove it ten miles. It just seems fairly clear to me the seller new there was a problem with it and should have said. Caveat emptor cannot be used as a cop out.

[Sirzy]

Did she test drive it before he purchased it? Did she ask about its general condition? Get someone to check it over?

Sorry but if you buy a second hand car then it is sold as seen. Horrible when it goes wrong but that is the risk you take.

[namechangeforthispost864269]

If it was a private seller I'd take a loss but as its someone you know they've knowingly sold a dud to s friend which is mean

[Lara2]

Thanks for the replies. I do understand that we probably legally had no comeback at all. Just feel awkward because I know the guy and he is friends with my dad's neighbours.
I will accept the money on my DSis behalf and put any awkwardness behind us.

[bearleftmonkeyright]

I think you've reached a reasonable compromise though. You would probably get the difference even if you had to scrap the car. Lesson learnt, but I think he should have said the car was faulty.

[Lara2]

My sister did drive the car, and it seemed fine, asked a lot of questions etc. The only thing she didn't do was get it checked out. Probably we were too trusting and thought that as it had a service history and we knew him, it would be OK.

[Spottypurse]

This is from the which site www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights/ sets out what rights you have - basically, it seems to me to be saying unless you ask the right questions and the seller tells lies, you have very little come back.

[bearleftmonkeyright]

It's a great link spotty but it doesn't really say that does it? Seems to me from your link they have every right to demand the money back. as it is in a reasonable time frame. They were misled as it wad faulty.

[Spottypurse]

This is the bit about buying privately :

Second hand car bought privately
You have fewer rights when you buy from a private seller and key parts of the Sale of Goods Act don't apply ? there is no legal requirement for a car to be of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.
But, legally, the seller must:
accurately describe the second hand car (for example, an advert must not say 'one owner', when the car has had several)
not misrepresent the second hand car (tell you something about the car which isn't true ? such as if it?s been in an accident, the owner must answer truthfully).


This is the bit about buying from a dealer :

Second hand car from a dealer
When you buy a second hand car from a dealer, you have the right, under the Sale of Goods Act, to expect the car to:
be of satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage)
meet any description given to you when you were buying it ( whether in the advert or in discussions prior to sale)
be fit for the purpose (for example, to get you from A to B safely).
If the second hand car does not meet these requirements, you have a right to claim against the dealer for breach of contract.
If something you buy is not 'as described', or if the seller is guilty of misrepresentation, you are entitled to:
give the second hand car back and get your money back, or
if you want to keep the car, ask for compensation (usually the cost of any repairs it needs)
But, if you buy a second hand car that was not described as being in excellent condition or good working order, and it breaks soon after you buy it, you don't have any right to reject it, or to claim compensation.
SUMMARY
When you buy a second hand car from a dealer, you still have statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act
If you bought your car on credit card, you may be able to claim under Section 75 if things go wrong.
If you claim on your warranty, your legal rights to reject the car still remain.

[Spottypurse]

From the trading standards website

rivate sales
When you buy a used vehicle from a private individual, you don't have the same rights as you do when buying from a trader. The legal principle of caveat emptor, or 'buyer beware' operates. You have no right to expect that the vehicle is of satisfactory quality or fit for its purpose, but there is a requirement that it should be 'as described'. For example, if an advertisement says 'low mileage, one previous owner', it must be correct. You should check the vehicle thoroughly before you buy it.

Whether you buy privately or from trader, you are entitled to expect that the vehicle is roadworthy, unless you and the seller clearly agree it is bought for scrap or for spares and repair. You should be aware that a vehicle sold with an MOT certificate does not guarantee that it is currently roadworthy, only that at the time it was tested it met the required safety standards needed to gain the MOT certificate.

You are entitled to expect that the seller has 'good title' to the vehicle. This means the person selling the vehicle must own it. If you buy a vehicle that you later find out is stolen, you do not have the legal right to keep it. You may have to give it back and you will have to try and get your money back from the seller.

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 gives 'good title' to the first private purchaser of a vehicle that later turns out to be subject to a claim by a finance provider. This means that if the previous owner sold the vehicle to you when there was finance outstanding and you were unaware of this, the finance provider cannot repossess the vehicle from you. Remember, this does not apply to vehicles that have been stolen, or vehicles that were subject to a lease or hire agreement.

You should be aware that some traders pretend to be private sellers - by selling vehicles at the roadside or via a classified advertisement - to avoid their legal obligations to consumers. If you come across a situation like this, contact Citizens Advice for the case to be referred to



www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/brighton-hove/con1item.cgi?file=*ADV0003-1011.txt

[bearleftmonkeyright]

But it wasn't as described, developed an obvious fault soon after and according to that link the buyer has every right to demand the money back. It is quite clear on the which link for buyers selling a car privately.

[Lara2]

Am I being too trusting in thinking that he couldn't have known the fault was there? Is it just one of those things and that's why we felt guilty asking for a refund and then money towards a repair?
That was a good link Spotty, but I can't prove he lied or not.

[Sirzy]

Faults occur on cars, you could never prove that he knew. Infact he could easily argue that if he knew it was faulty he wouldn't have allowed a test drive.

[Spottypurse]

Legally, he had no obligation to offer the money. Unless he specifically said "this car has perfect automatic transmission and I guarantee it isn't faulty".

Which I don't think he did. That's why cars are cheaper if you buy from a private dealer - you have less rights if something goes wrong.