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to think that women shouldn't need 'safe havens'

(56 Posts)
skylerwhite Wed 07-Aug-13 13:52:45

The Lord Mayor of Melbourne is proposing safe havens for women. This smacks of women ghettos to me. What a stupid, stupid, ill-thought out and offensive policy.

flatpackhamster Wed 07-Aug-13 19:00:13


flat - but it is a gender issue. You've explained it yourself. You do get that men are a gender, right? confused

Violence is almost always gendered.

In that a gender is involved???

It is the single biggest factor in seeing how violence works.

For marxists, yes.

We really need to target it on this basis -and, shortly after that, we need to look at race, and economic status, and all sorts of other features.

For marxists, yes.

It is terribly sad that you think the answer is to filter society - what do you do with the rest of society?!

I didn't say it was 'the answer'. I said it was the only way to achieve a non-violent place.

What do you do when you have the women, and the black men and women, and so on? All those people you talk about as if it's ok for them to be victims - how do they escape being beaten up?

Yes, because it's only evil white males what do the hitting.

This is a real question. Honestly: where do you imagine they would go? Because you say you'llnfind somewhere 'safe' - but where? Is it a ghetto? If it is ... now how is that going to work?

That's my point. Your fantasy of a safe place is unachievable, so you might as well forget it and start working on my spaceship.

I think instead of thinking how well safe spaces will work for the minority, we need to start thinking, does the majority need a huge rocket under its arse?

I think you need to stop reflecting everything through the distorted prism of far-left feminism.

skylerwhite Wed 07-Aug-13 19:02:40

It's all the fault of those pesky marxists and far-left feminists, clearly. hmm

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy Wed 07-Aug-13 19:02:54

flat - sorry, I don't quite follow you? confused

What did you mean exactly?

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy Wed 07-Aug-13 19:04:05

I've got to apologize - I'm sorry, I don't know anything about Marxism. If that's your person belief I totally respect it, but I'm afraid I can't really follow it.

skylerwhite Wed 07-Aug-13 19:05:18

I think flatpack is using marxist as a term of abuse, LRD.

skylerwhite Wed 07-Aug-13 19:07:21

Flatpack Friday night fights, as you put it, are intensely gendered.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy Wed 07-Aug-13 19:09:20

Ah, ok. confused

Well, sorry, I am not a specialist in Marxism, even as a term of abuse, so flat you might need to find someone else who is into that.

Personally I just tend to look at this from a feminist perspective. It is probably very under-theorized if you are very academic, so please don't feel you have to explain the Marxism stuff to me!

I just meant, I didn't quite get why women needed safe havens overall. I agree with skyler that it is a sad indication of how our society works, that this exists. As a rather sadly defeated feminist, I can (unfortunately) see that in practical terms, a safe space may be useful. But I wish to goodness we didn't need it.:-(

skylerwhite Wed 07-Aug-13 19:10:37

Why are you feeling so sadly-defeated, LRD?

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy Wed 07-Aug-13 19:13:09

Oh, I'm fine skyler, just didn't want to be rude on your thread, and I realized I'd managed to see so.

breatheslowly Wed 07-Aug-13 19:14:07

I agree that this seems like a step backwards.

Do CCTVs actually deter crime, or does it just mean that they are likely to find the perpetrator?

skylerwhite Wed 07-Aug-13 19:19:10

LRD: Be rude wherever you want to be rude! I'm not the thread police smile flowers

skylerwhite Wed 07-Aug-13 19:20:10

breathe in the case which seems to have prompted this step, the CCTV helped to identify the perpetrator. Not sure if they actually deter crime in the first place.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy Wed 07-Aug-13 19:22:56

You're not?! shock

But yes ... I do stand by what I said.

TattyDevine Wed 07-Aug-13 19:27:42

Look, I don't know how I feel about this. I am from this City, I grew up there and actually compared to London, though smaller, in some ways it is a far scarier place.

I was there for 3 weeks last August without children or husband and there are some serious social problems there involving drugs, poverty and general perversion.

Of course this will happen in any big city to an extent but considering Melbourne's population it is worrying.

There is a bigger issue of course but when I think about my mother finishing work and walking from the concert hall to Flinders St Station to get the train home I feel happier knowing they are looking out for her.

I don't know. I totally agree women shouldn't need a safe haven or special treatment in theory, if in practice that didn't put them in danger.

TattyDevine Wed 07-Aug-13 19:29:10

I am lets say past my prime and I got hassled to all hell walking through the city centre and certain inner city areas even in broad daylight. In some ways, it is a very uncouth society and we should be proud that the UK is as civilised as it is, even if there is scope for improvement.

Saffyz Wed 07-Aug-13 19:46:07

How about rounding up all the men who see women as second-class citizens and keeping them in a "dangerous haven"?

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy Wed 07-Aug-13 19:52:59

tatty - I absolutely see what you are saying.

But it seems not me that really none of us are disagreeing?

You want your mum to be safe.

I want my lovely SIL to be safe,

But god knows ideally we all want everyone to be safe.

My feeling is, if this move is the fist of many - great! I think we need this and we need many more, and eventually we need everywhere to be safe for women. Of course we do.

Meantime, frankly, I think anything that is safe for women is good. If it's treated as a ghetto for women, we can get up in arms about it, too.

TattyDevine Wed 07-Aug-13 19:53:40

If that were possible Saffyz (the ones who are not already in prison) that'd be ideal. At least CCTV will make it more likely they end up in the "safe haven" that is prison.

TattyDevine Wed 07-Aug-13 19:54:37

Totally LRD

skylerwhite Wed 07-Aug-13 19:58:23

Well, none of us are disagreeing apart from the marxist-feminist-phobic posters...

I can see that practically it's a good thing if women are safer, but I think it sends a really dangerous message to women - that there are only certain areas they can safely go into, and that they are somehow to blame if they stray outside these areas and are attacked.

TattyDevine Wed 07-Aug-13 20:06:26

Yes, it would be a great shame if that were the culture it created Skylerwhite

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Wed 07-Aug-13 20:24:27

If they want to install more CCTV then DO IT ACROSS THE CITY not in sections! Then they can victim blame I suppose though..."Oh well we do provide safe zones...she just wasn't IN one when she got raped/beaten up/murdered.....

breatheslowly Wed 07-Aug-13 21:27:36

I'm not sure that I feel much safer knowing that they have CCTV to catch the person who attacks me. I just don't want to be attacked int the first place.

TattyDevine Wed 07-Aug-13 21:40:58

Totally agree breatheslowly. However CCTV isn't just after the fact. There are armed police officers swarming around these built up areas like flies (all police are armed in Melbourne, different debate as to whether this is good or not, not necessarily saying it is or isn't). And these CCTV cameras are manned live - so you might be in the process of being attacked and a minute later 4 armed police turn up and arrest the assailant...not too shabby, in the absence of people behaving nicely.

TattyDevine Wed 07-Aug-13 21:44:17

I know a lot can happen in 30 seconds or a minute, but its better than being dragged into a bush in the middle of nowhere and being forced to testify with little evidence 18 months later. Honestly, I don't know, I think you'd almost have to be a victim before you really knew how to feel about all this, and I haven't been, and I have no idea who has or hasn't been, but I think while there are predators (male or female) in the world there is no ideal world. If something terrible comes from this initiative it should be tackled. If it simply means a reduction in crime in an area, great. If it means victim blaming, that will be tackled. If it means more safe areas, so be it. I don't know...the whole thing is kind of disappointing really. The need, as opposed to the proposed "solution". I think we are united on that...

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