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To be really offended and infact mighty pissed off!

(159 Posts)
chubbymomie2012 Tue 30-Jul-13 07:23:41

I have a beauty therapist who comes to my house to do waxing nails etc ( because i have 4 kids, saves me taking then all with me) she has only been coming a few months but last month she requested me as a friend on facebook so I accepted, she seemed nice enough.

Last night I was havng a flick through it when I saw a post she had on. It was a Photo of 4 Coke bottles. 3 bottles had girls names on them including Aoibhe and orlaith. Obvious Irish names. the fourth had the word Fenians on it. her comment was "Ha Ha True!"

AIBU to be insulted and to think even if she holds these bigoted outdated opinions, she is in a profession where she shouldnt be broadcasting them, and AIBU not to have her near my house again!

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Tue 30-Jul-13 08:37:55

Rosh I know, I just feel confused about it because I remember my Nan, his daughter singing songs which were most definitely not on the side of the English. It's odd. Ny grandad apparently had shellshock in the war...maybe that influenced him.

TalkativeJim Tue 30-Jul-13 08:39:17

...and no, the origins may not be offensive, but that's a bit like arguing that 'Paki' just describes where a person is from...

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 30-Jul-13 08:40:33


You seem quite determined to see the best in this. Wonder why?

If you read your own definition from Wikipedia, and the definition I linked to earlier you'll see that something can originate in one way but then be appropriated by other people as an insult.

Pagwatch Tue 30-Jul-13 08:43:18

My grandfather was abandoned and raised by an ageing catholic couple. The black and tans stopped them all one day and beat the couple severely. No reason. He was just a caretaker/handyman, they were all heading home.

My grandad would still get upset sixty years later.

SconeInSixtySeconds Tue 30-Jul-13 08:44:27

I am reading sarcasm in that comment "local friendly rioters".

Wow. I am really surprised that someone living in NI would broadcast that amount of twisted thinking for the world to see.

Fenian is definitely used as a derogatory term (it's one my mil uses in the same way that she talks about The Gays) but in England we aren't exposed to it and it passes us by.

chubbymomie2012 Tue 30-Jul-13 08:46:45

sorry yes, i was being sarcastic when i said friendly rioters. And before i get flamed for that I am fully aware both sides of the fence riot etc. i believe ALL rioting is wrong!

SconeInSixtySeconds Tue 30-Jul-13 08:50:02

I am worried now that you thought I was referring to you being twisted chubby - which I wasn't . <ties self into knots>

claig Tue 30-Jul-13 08:55:17

"You seem quite determined to see the best in this. Wonder why?"

Oh dear. I am just trying to understand it.

The Wolfe Tones are an Irish band who have lots of nationalist songs and I don't think they believe that Fenian is an insult, just as Roshbegosh said also as far as I can understand. I'm not Irish, but Rosh may well be and so will know much more about it.

Of course, some people use the term Fenian as an insult, but those people never invented the term Fenian, it was not their word, they just used it derogatively. Fenian was an Irish word, used by Irish people and is in Irish nationalist songs sung by nationalists such as the Wolfe Tones, which makes me think that Irish nationalists would not find it offensive.

As far as I understand it, the struggle for Irish independence, was one for freedom from foreign rule rather than a purely religious struggle. There were protestants who were Irish republicans too, because it was a battle for Irish independence rather than a religious struggle.

therumoursaretrue Tue 30-Jul-13 08:59:58

YANBU at all OP. I wouldn't have her back near me after that.

chubbymomie2012 Tue 30-Jul-13 09:00:05

Scone i prob am a bit twisted given i have lived here for almost 40. yrs lol. no I didnt think that. I have no political affiliations in fact am guilty of apathy! (almost worse that being nationalist or unionist in some ppls eyes)
I think having gone to a Catholic grammer and spending those 7 years having 50 shades of shite kicked out of me by the kids who went to the protestant high school accross the road, I am a reasonably rounded individual lol. (you have to laugh or you would cry lol)

treaclesoda Tue 30-Jul-13 09:05:37

You're definitely right to be horrified. I'm in NI too and probably about the same age as you and it really depresses me that 20 year olds, who didn't even live through what we did, seem to be so much more bigoted than our age group. I know that's a sweeping generalisation, but its just what I have witnessed in recent years.

pianodoodle Tue 30-Jul-13 09:05:46

The Wolfe Tones are an Irish band and some of their songs are Irish Nationalist and one of their songs is called "Bold Fenian Men"

I don't think they believe that the word 'Fenian' is an insult.

I play a piano piece by Debussy called "Golliwog's Cake Walk".... What's your point?

Lol local friendly rioters I phoned my Nan a while ago as there was rioting near her she said "I'm fed up - they're a lot of bad rascals!"... Typical Irish/N.Irish understatement I think!

chubbymomie2012 Tue 30-Jul-13 09:09:21

LMao Piano, like my mother said, If it was raining they'd be in watching Eastenders hehehe they make me laugh

LadyClariceCannockMonty Tue 30-Jul-13 09:09:43

I think this is a really sticky area actually.

OP, of course YANBU and I think you're doing the right thing in cancelling her and telling her why.

BUT imagine if she'd never invited you to be her FB friend. Would this have come up in conversation while she did your treatments? Let's assume not. You might have gone on having perfectly nice (and useful!) sessions with her for months or years and been completely unaware of her bigoted opinions.

I have a nice relationship with my beauty therapist/Zumba teacher/boss but am not FB friends or similar with any of them. I've no idea if any or all of them hold dubious opinions or political positions.

I'm not sure what my point is really, but it seems to me that finding out things about people inadvertently, or via a medium through which these things wouldn't have come out in the past, brings up a lot of questions.

pianodoodle Tue 30-Jul-13 09:10:11

Sorry Claig didn't mean for that to sound so curt!

The term obviously has history but it also used in the context of an insult.

claig Tue 30-Jul-13 09:10:50

'I play a piano piece by Debussy called "Golliwog's Cake Walk".... What's your point?'

I fail to see what that has got to do with Irish nationalist songs and the use of the term Fenian, which according to wikipedia was first used by the founder of an Irish republican group, and not by some protestants who now use the term derogatively.

"The name Fenian was first applied by John O'Mahony to the members of the Irish republican group that he founded in the United States in 1848.[1] O'Mahony, who was a Celtic scholar, named the American wing of the movement after the Fianna.[2][3][4][5] In Gaelic Ireland these were warrior bands of young men who lived apart from society and could be called upon in times of war."

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 30-Jul-13 09:12:49


It's frustrating that you seem to have known nothing of this apart from what your read on Wikipedia and yet are studiously ignoring what people on here are saying.

I'm not in the mood for arguing the toss today.

claig Tue 30-Jul-13 09:14:31

"The term obviously has history but it also used in the context of an insult."

Yes, opponents of Irish nationalism use the term derogatively, but it seems that it is used with pride in Irish nationalist songs as sung by bands such as the Wolfe Tones, who are Irish Nationalists.

And browsing wikipedia, I have just learned that Wolfe Tone himself, whom wikipedia describes as "the father of Irish republicanism", appears to have been a Protestant.

Pagwatch Tue 30-Jul-13 09:16:42

The history of conflict in Ireland is centuries old and incredibly complicated.

Tbh I think quoting wiki and presenting that as more informative than those who have lived amidst/with knowledge of the violence, prejudice and conflict for decades is pretty unhelpful.

treaclesoda Tue 30-Jul-13 09:17:12

Wolfe Tone was a Protestant because the United Irishmen movement dates bacl to the times when the only church accepted by the British rulers was the Anglican church. So at that stage it wasn't seen as a Protestant/Catholic issue but an Anglican/ Non Anglican issue.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 30-Jul-13 09:17:45


I get what you are saying. But once it's out there, it's hard to ignore, isn't it? the beautician chose to friend the OP so it shows stupidity and a lack of respect to her "friends" to put her dodgy views out there

pianodoodle Tue 30-Jul-13 09:18:22

sorry yes, i was being sarcastic when i said friendly rioters. And before i get flamed for that I am fully aware both sides of the fence riot etc. i believe ALL rioting is wrong!

Too late for apology chubby I've just gone out to the driveway and set fire to my own car. That'll teach you! (won't it?)

I'm sure Dh will understand when he gets home to the flaming wreckage that it was the only reasonable course of action grin

claig Tue 30-Jul-13 09:18:38

Good point, treaclesoda, thanks for explaining that.

treaclesoda Tue 30-Jul-13 09:18:57

and its not a Catholic/Protestant issue now either, just before someone, quite rightly, corrects me on that. Its more about identity, perceived identity etc.

dontwannasaywho Tue 30-Jul-13 09:22:10

chubbymomie2012 If u live in N.I that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Tbh it isn't the worst joke I've heard and I am Catholic, don't be insulted just ignore that sort of stuff because there is plenty of it out there and a lot worse than that.

And no I dont think its right but whats the alternative, ask her about it and it turns into her accussing you of being bitter.

Plus would you really want her waxing you after pulling her up about that!

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