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IHBU not to go to the police?

(32 Posts)
deadduck Sat 27-Jul-13 17:30:41

My daughter (nearly 18) and her boyfriend walked home from the pub last night in a normally reasonably safe suburban area, when they encountered a group of local lads who started taunting them. My daughter's boyfriend is 19 and currently on crutches due to a broken foot. They tried to ignore them, but the lads crossed the road, and one of them, clearly off his head with something nasty, started beating up my daughter's boyfriend, took his crutches away and thumped him round the head, splitting his lip. He then held his fist in my daughter's face, threatening to punch her and beat her up too. Eventually they moved on, and the two were left shaken, with my daughter calling 999. Police came and offered them a lift home (3 minutes walk from where they were), and my daughter said she would much prefer it if they tried to catch whoever did that to them. Police kind of shrugged it off. No proper statement taken or anything.
This morning, boyfriend had to go to hospital due to bad headaches, was given an MRI scan and told he has fluid in his ear. They were going to go back to the police to report the whole thing properly (they know the name of the guy who did the beating), but boyfriend changed his mind, due to fear of repercussions. My daughter and I still thinks it should be reported, but he his adamant. I am furious that a) the police last night was so nonchalant about what clearly was assault, and b) that weak coward bully pig that beats up and threatens girls and men on crutches will get away with it. Turns out he's actually a former student of my husband's, and has always been trouble and well known to the police even when at school.
Should they go back to the police ? Can they do anything to protect themselves? As far as I know, gang won't know where we or the boyfriend live, but it's a small world around here and they could find out.

jeansdoneupwitharubberband Sat 27-Jul-13 17:36:57

imo they should definitely report it, and make a complaint about the initial contact with police at the same time. However its difficult to persuade someone to do this if they are fearful of repercussions. Perhaps after thinking about it some more he will change his mind again if he feels he has plenty support from your family and his own? Can your daughter report it herself, does it have to come from her boyfriend?

deadduck Sat 27-Jul-13 17:46:22

I completely agree with you. She could report it on her own. I think I might ring their non-emergency number tomorrow and speak to someone. She's really shaken and fearful of going out now.

BMW6 Sat 27-Jul-13 17:48:40

I can understand the fear of repercussions, but this is why these thugs get away with it.

I agree with other posters - report and complain about initial Police piss poor response

Whothefuckfarted Sat 27-Jul-13 17:48:59

If the boyfriend is unwilling to report it and is adamant he doesn't want to press charges there's nothing you can do. Your daughter wasn't the one assaulted so no, that won't work.

deadduck Sat 27-Jul-13 17:55:08

She was threatened though, and she witnessed a crime. That must count for something? Also, I think that if she does go and the police would follow it up, the boyfriend will talk. This lad is well known to the police already.
I wonder if anyone here has had similar experiences and knows how realistic the threat of really repercussions is? I also think if nothing else, there needs to be a complaint against the police. He was streaming with blood, and they just said: wipe it off, you'll be ok. Should they not have taken him to the hospital, seeing that he had head injuries?

AgentZigzag Sat 27-Jul-13 17:59:55

Of course your DD should report it if she feels comfortable doing that, but I don't think anyone should pressure her bf.

It's completely his choice.

It might not be nice, but he may have a point about getting further shit off this lad and his mates. You can say he should do the right thing and not be cowed by this bully, do it for other people so the lad gets his just desserts, but when you're in the situation it's a different kettle of fish and can be intimidating/frightening.

And judging by the police reaction (which you might be able to change to a more positive one if you went back to them), what would happen to him even if he got done for it? If he's trouble all the time, it's not going to put him off is it?

Your poor DD though (and her bf, and you too OP, hardly going to put your mind at rest when she's out and about again)

jammiedonut Sat 27-Jul-13 18:00:05

It's worth getting your daughter go to the police. It's not always necessary for the person who was assaulted to press charges, I'm thinking in terms of DV when the victim is likely to be intimidated into dropping charges, not sure if this applies to general assault but worth going. I'd also lay a bit of a guilt trip on the boyfriend, he had a lucky escape, but by not pressing charges he is allowing this guy to roam the streets free to attack the next person, who may not be so lucky.

AgentZigzag Sat 27-Jul-13 18:06:06

'I can understand the fear of repercussions, but this is why these thugs get away with it.'

I totally agree with that, but there's no way I'd want my DD to put herself in the firing line to take a stance.

What about thinking about how it'd be afterwards OP? If your DD reported it and her bf agreed to go along with her, would you feel comfortable knowing the lad knows she's been back to the police when she's out with her bf at the pub in a couple of weeks time?

If he can do that to them unprovoked, what's he going to be like angry as fuck and wanting to show off in front of his cronies?

Doing the right thing is an easy decision when it's someone else's life, but it is the harsh truth that she's going to go out again and you know this scrote is violent.

AgentZigzag Sat 27-Jul-13 18:09:05

Not fair to make the bf feel guilty to try and manipulate him jammie.

And my last post isn't what I'm saying I know for sure would happen OP, I'm just thinking how I'd feel about my (now 12 YO) DD being there, and I'd probably/possibly/might advise her to leave it, having been in a slightly similar situation myself.

Tilly28 Sat 27-Jul-13 18:24:12

But if they don't report it surely the bloke who attacked her bf will think they didn't say anything to the police last time so they won't if we do it again! If noone reports anyone for fear of repercussions then they will always get away with it!

deadduck Sat 27-Jul-13 18:52:09

I know, Tilly. This is what I am struggling with. I just don't want them to do anything that could put them in more danger, and it's hard to work out which would.

MammaTJ Sat 27-Jul-13 19:17:05

How awful for them. I am normally the first to say go to the police with something like this but if you live in a community where everyone knows everyone else it is not that easy. I really do understand his concerns.

I am not sure how reliable the police are in dealing with the repurcussions either.

Having said that, what Tilly says about them getting away with it, so doing it again and again rings true too.

Off to pull the splinters out of my arse from sitting on the fence now, having been no use to you whatsoever.

AgentZigzag Sat 27-Jul-13 19:58:44

But he's going to do it again and again regardless of whether OPs DD goes back or not.

MammaTJ Sat 27-Jul-13 20:06:48

Very cynical AgentZigZag. There is the hope that crime, arrest, punishment, crime, arrest, punishment may eventually bring about a realisation that even if they don't care about the harm they do to others, they are actually hurting their own lives by continuing this behaviour.

AgentZigzag Sat 27-Jul-13 20:11:57

I am pretty cynical about this one, he'll only change his ways when he realises, by himself, how much he harms other people, i.e. when he grows up.

Some never do, but it's not something you can force on anyone, like kicking an addiction, it's something they have to work out for themselves.

Plomino Sat 27-Jul-13 20:12:44

I can see exactly why you would wish it reported , however if the boyfriend won't report it , then there is nothing the police can do . We work according to a set of guidelines called national crime recording standards , and one of the main reasons that stops crime being recorded , is if the victim refuses to report . Pretty much the only time we don't go by those guidelines , is in cases of domestic violence . Bearing in mind that your DDs boyfriend had no idea of the seriousness of his injuries , I can see why this hasn't gone any further. And FWIW , police would never have taken a written statement last night , because taking even a basic statement lasts for at least an hour , and response officers simply do not have that amount of time on a Friday night when they are potentially one of the only two cars on the street , with numerous emergency calls coming out . What normally happens is a quick report is taken to get it recorded , and full statements are done in slow time , so it gets done properly .

However . Now the injuries are known , there is nothing to stop him reporting it , but saying that he does not wish to pursue , particularly if the injuries are enough to warrant a charge of GBH . And even if he doesn't , there is also nothing to stop your DD reporting the threats made to her , which if they put her as a reasonably confident person , in fear of immediate unlawful violence , may be enough for an offence of affray , rather than the lesser one of threatening behaviour .

But . Its down to the victim . They have to weigh up the choice between doing the right thing , and possibly being found out an harassed ( which does happen , albeit less than people think). Or not reporting , and nothing happens , and they still meet in the street anyway , if as you say , it's a small town . With the suspect smirking .

quoteunquote Sat 27-Jul-13 20:31:29

Write a letter of complaint to Chief Constable about how it was handled,

By not reporting it means that someone will endure a repeat performance, no doubt the same as the previous victims did, so that your daughter and BF got attacked.

Every area has a few nasty pieces of work, who rely on people being too scared to report.

they now have every reason to target them again, because they know they won't do anything about it.

MammaTJ Sat 27-Jul-13 20:57:31

Am I allowed to change my stance, having disagree with someone, or do I have to do the MN norm and continue with what I have said previously?

I'll go with the 'allowed to change'.

I do see your point AgentZigZag and having an 18 year old DD myself and living in a community where everyone does know everyonel I might discourage her from reporting.

MammaTJ Sat 27-Jul-13 21:01:43

From purely my own point of view though, I have reported people, again and again who are very intimidating. I am a woman of now 45 years of age and pretty able to stick up for myself. I will not be intimidated but would be scared for my DD in the same situation.

AgentZigzag Sat 27-Jul-13 21:10:49

If this was your DD and her bf Plomino, would you advise them to go back to the police?

Is the small risk of the bloke getting more violent still a significant one in your opinion? One you'd advise your DD taking?

That's it as well Mamma, that it's not just him, it's all his friends who might recognise them and put the boot in on his behalf, even if it's not physical, verbal and intimidation is just as bad. Or take it online. All worst case scenarios, but happen enough times to make it a real threat.

MammaTJ Sat 27-Jul-13 21:18:37

None of that would frighten me, for me! It would scare the hell out of me for my DD though!!

AgentZigzag Sat 27-Jul-13 21:25:16

It would, and did, worry me Mamma, but I could bear it, I couldn't bear it if was DD.

Although I'd have to of course, as well as keeping my furious/scared for her feelings to myself.

Xihha Sat 27-Jul-13 21:27:12

I would complain about the police's attitude but frankly wouldn't bother trying to get the police to do anything about it, from previous experience of living in a small town and reporting a similar crime i can tell you that the power the police have in a case like this is nowhere near equal to the repercussions a person like the one you've described is likely to cause.

The bloke who attacked your dd's bf is in trouble a lot so being arrested for assault is highly unlikely to make much difference, especially if the bf is reluctant to press charges so the most the police would be able to charge him with from your dd going to them is threatening behaviour.

Plomino Sat 27-Jul-13 22:42:24

Honestly , if it were my DD , yes I'd like her to report . But then I recognise that I am in a slightly different position . But there are safeguards that can be put in place , like the suspect being given bail conditions not to go near either your DD or her boyfriend , and their addresses being flagged to treat calls as urgent .

I can understand why people don't report completely . But nasty individuals get away with this kind of behaviour , precisely because it goes unchecked . And because police are dictated to by the Home Office guidelines , it means that their hands are tied . We cannot report it , if the victim will not confirm that a recordable crime has taken place . It's not a choice , that's a fact . Only in DV cases does that change . That and murder , obviously .

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