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to think that 20 grand on benefits a year is loads

(793 Posts)
MrsBucketxx Fri 19-Jul-13 08:36:18

considering they dont pay any income tax.

just watching we pay your benefits program and worked out that this is over 30 grand if it was a normal tax paying salary.

why was this not mentioned.

peteypiranha Tue 23-Jul-13 08:04:57

On the other hand fasterstronger some of the most important jobs are the lowest paid ones.

FasterStronger Tue 23-Jul-13 08:35:13

that's very much a MN belief. I dont think joe public thinks that.

of course what's important is based on what you need/see as a need around you.

need a heart transplant. its the heart surgeon. etc. etc. need to fire service, its them. need rubbish collecting etc etc.

but either way, importance does not determine the price someone is paid to perform the role. that is a function of the number of people who can perform the role and how much someone is willing to pay for the task to be performed.

low paid jobs can be performed by many unskilled people.

alemci Tue 23-Jul-13 09:09:05

no I agree dahlen but I do think it does create disrespect in certain scenarios, whatever they do the money still comes, no disciplinary at work etc, no sanctions or wagedocking. not everyone is the same I know that.

thanks for sharing your success. good on yousmile

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 23-Jul-13 09:09:51

Just because something is unskilled does not mean that nobody has to do it.

Is flaming obvious really retail,food production everything like that its all usually NMW or a few pence above it.

FasterStronger Tue 23-Jul-13 09:45:24

I agree but it does mean it will be low paid.

Dahlen Tue 23-Jul-13 10:31:21

FasterStronger - yes, but I don't think it's expecting too much to be able to afford to keep a roof over your head and food in your stomach if you work full-time, regardless of how many people can do that job. If you are prepared to work hard, it should be rewarded, i.e. you should not find yourself where you are working to full capacity only to find yourself still needing to receive benefits and then receiving the opprobrium of the general public for doing so. Wages are always going to be commensurate with experience and talent, and that's as it should be, but the basic should be enough to live off if it's full time in a fair society IMO.

Also, the number of people who come from deprived backgrounds without any kind of support and still do well for themselves are an overwhelming minority. In the majority of cases those who have managed it have had some extra support - either parents with particular parenting skills, a community worker who has gone the extra mile, an outreach grant that has made something financially out of reach possible. That's why these sorts of things are so important if we want to break the cycle of deprivation. We have to provide opportunities.

IMO it all starts with the family. I really think that if we ploughed all our resources into creating a generation of great parents, a lot of our social problems would take care of themselves.

FasterStronger Tue 23-Jul-13 10:47:29

I dont think anyone is complaining about people who work FT and provide care for their children getting support.

Dahlen Tue 23-Jul-13 11:47:43

But people want HB capped - yet the majority of people affected by this are the working poor.

People want tax credits stopped - the majority of claimants are the working poor.

The argument is that people have a sense of entitlement and if they just adopted more of a "make do and mend" mentality no one working should need tax credits, because they're only using them to fund their foreign holidays bla bla bla.

The majority of benefits are claimed by people in work and pensioners.

FasterStronger Tue 23-Jul-13 12:42:39

people want HB capped

yes because people who cannot claim HB have a limit to what they can afford. and for most people 3 bedrooms is as much as they can afford. or perhaps much less.

Viviennemary Tue 23-Jul-13 12:57:25

People do want housing benefit capped. Lots of people have to live outside London because they can't afford to buy or rent in London. So why are certain people subsidised by huge amounts to live where another person can't afford to live. So I totally agree with HB benefit caps.

FasterStronger Tue 23-Jul-13 13:12:48

I used to live near one of the areas of highest unemployment in the country - in very central London.

while others had to commute for 3-4 hours per day because they could not afford to live there.


Darkesteyes Tue 23-Jul-13 14:06:46

A lot of joe publics beliefs come from not reading between the lines. Ive never claimed tax credits but IMO they are needed because employers dont pay enough. (i was earning £6 an hour 12 years ago FFS.)
The minute this Gov got in 3 yrs ago i knew it wouldnt be long before the working poor got set againsst the non working poor Just more divisive policies.

Darkesteyes Tue 23-Jul-13 14:10:08

And i think i did say on a thread on here a long while ago that the Tories do see tax credits as another benefit.
But they are actually a business subsidy for poorly paying employers.

Dahlen Tue 23-Jul-13 14:18:21

We are talking in circles now. There seems to be little understanding of how benefits are applied and how ordinary people are affected. Most benefit claimants are ordinary people, working full-time jobs, living in normal non-London areas, who simply cannot afford to live on their earned income. They are not single mothers with 15 children living in Mayfair.

London is quite different to the rest of the country. The rest of the country is affected not only by the cap but also the allowance. The allowance is set at a percentage of market value rents in the area, meaning that HB applicants are automatically put into the bottom end of the market. No problem with that apart from the fact that there simply aren't enough houses in that bracket to go round, because not only are there too many HB applicants but they are also competing against non-HB applicants who want to keep their housing costs.

There seems little point in discussing this anymore though.

peteypiranha Tue 23-Jul-13 14:30:46

What about carers? I dont think a lot of people can do that really well but they only get the minimum wage.

Darkesteyes Tue 23-Jul-13 14:32:01

I share your frustration Dahlen.

FasterStronger Tue 23-Jul-13 14:36:19

I am not talking about the odd person living in mayfair with 15 dcs. I am talking about unemployment as high in central London as the poorest areas in the country.

it shows the system is not working for vast numbers of people. not the odd person on HB in mayfair.

FasterStronger Tue 23-Jul-13 14:48:36

I am not talking about the odd person living in mayfair with 15 dcs. I am talking about unemployment as high in central London as the poorest areas in the country.

it shows the system is not working for vast numbers of people. not the odd person on HB in mayfair.

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