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To think that Jamie Oliver is being ideological.

(70 Posts)
Darkesteyes Tue 16-Jul-13 00:20:51

This is probably old but Psychologies tweeted it and im quite disappointed in them for phrasing it in the inflammatory way that they did.
Its an article on how young people expect too much and people like Jamie Oliver has said that not enough young people are prepared to graft and do work experience and internships .
All very well for him to say but a lot of young people cant afford to work for no wages. A lot of them may have parents who have been hit by the economic crisis and/or on low wages or have a disabled parent at home.

JustinBsMum Tue 16-Jul-13 09:29:27

I think people in general don't do as much physical work as was the norm in the 50s and 60s, not through laziness, but because everything is motorized.
My DBs used to mow the lawn with a hand mower, lop branches off trees with a saw, rebuild their bikes or repair punctures, we swept and weeded the drive. You just don't see people outside with a broom in their hands nowadays. It was a lesson in doing the boring jobs and finding reward, grateful parents, afterwards.

Why don't shopkeepers sweep in front of their shops, or house dwellers sweep the pavement - oh, of course we'd rather pay the council to do it every 6 months.

exoticfruits Tue 16-Jul-13 09:44:32

I don't like all the bashing of young people. No one talks about the many things they are doing in the volunteer sector. My DS couldn't get a job, and we couldn't afford to keep him on an internship away from home, but he has been working for a charity and using his particular expertise and doing a second voluntary job. Thousands of graduates are working in retail, catering etc- they are not just sitting there refusing to get out of bed because they can't find the 'right' job. Unfortunately it means that if the graduate with a 2:1 in a science subject is washing up in a restaurant he is taking the job from a 16yr old who might have had it in the past.

Whowouldfardelsbear Tue 16-Jul-13 09:49:55

JO did have advantages AFAIK - including a supportive family who were bothered about him doing well. I don't think the importance of that can be understated.

I think he is too sanctimonious for his own good and he winds me up.

WilsonFrickett Tue 16-Jul-13 09:53:58

I do find him sanctimonious and he has an unfortunate way of putting things but in terms of the work he does with 15 and in terms of being an employer himself, I think he's entitled to say what he sees. It's unfortunate that he doesn't dig a little deeper to see the causes of some of the issues though.

Damnautocorrect Tue 16-Jul-13 10:00:59

My oh is an emoyer in a trade sector. He has work experience kids, he has apprentices as well as fully qualified. He also has kids coming to him to train instead of school, so your school refusers.
He's had youngsters steal, lazy not turning up when they should, disappearing off the face of the earth, kids without any communication skills.
Yes he's had a mixed bag, some good. Some awful. But recently the bad lazy ones have outweighed the good and he has struggled to find ones who actually want to work.

NotYouNaanBread Tue 16-Jul-13 10:05:30

He patronisingly addressed me as "Sister" in a tweet, so I obviously think he's a patronising git.

Internships are only available to people with parental support, within striking distance of their family home. Not a lot of use if you're unemployed, live in Reading and are offered 1 month in Jamie Oliver's office, is it? How on earth can you take it?

I am heavily in favour of the Jobcentre's work experience scheme, but stunned at how little interest there is in it. I have taken on three people in my tiny company on that scheme and employed all three of them at the end of it, but they were all fairly middle class to start with, and living with their supportive parents (who could probably have supported them on an internship if need be anyway). I don't know why there was no interest from people with other backgrounds - the Jobcentre struggled to find people to send to me and all I needed was "interested in working in an office in the design industry", not an MBA. There are about 2,500 on JSA in my city, and they'd be getting it anyway while working with me, as well as being entitled to go to as many interviews etc as they liked during the placement. What is there to lose?

EeTraceyluv Tue 16-Jul-13 10:06:29

His parents own a small pub in a village in Essex and he went to Grammar school not private school.

redandblacks Tue 16-Jul-13 10:12:02

How did he win a place at grammar school if he has only just read his first book?

YoniBottsBumgina Tue 16-Jul-13 10:19:35

I remember I wanted to work vaguely in "media". I had no idea of the different jobs in media and everywhere I tried to research I hit dead ends. Eventually managed to speak to a friend's dad who was incredulous that I had no idea of the different jobs (which made me feel frustrated because I was trying!) and then said, god, whatever you do, don't study "media" at university.

Seems obvious now but when you're 14 and all you've ever known is school and possibly your parents' industries (if they even have one, my mum was a waitress and then unemployed due to long term sickness) and the school are nicely pigeonholing everyone, oh you want to do media, go on this media course... you just have no idea.

I don't want schools to go back to "You're useless and will never amount to anything, now do a typing course, girls can't be doctors!" but I don't think that giving wildly inaccurate career advice is helpful either. What young people need is low status jobs which can lead somewhere and which, crucially, give you an insight into a particular industry and how it works so that you can work out where you fit in that one, if you indeed fit into that one at all. Once you leave school and start meeting other adults you learn loads about different jobs, but teachers and career advisors just don't seem to know in enough detail.

College was great for me - all tutors were ex-industry workers. IMO that would be a great asset, if secondary school science teachers had worked in labs or engineering or as a vet, english teachers in publishing or journalism, etc etc. It's not realistic but it would be fantastic for young people.

Thisisaeuphemism Tue 16-Jul-13 10:19:57

Wiki says he went to a state comp.

I don't like youth bashing - the old have a lot to answer for - they should be bashed too.

I feel sorry for kids who are growing up with no support or aspiration and in a system that allowed them to do nothing. It's not their fault.

YoniBottsBumgina Tue 16-Jul-13 10:21:00

NaanBread how long has that scheme been running? I've never heard of it until now.

MidniteScribbler Tue 16-Jul-13 10:21:12

exoticfruits you're taking this very personally about your son, but it's really not an attack on him at all. Yes, he's had a hard time of it, but he persisted. And that is the whole point. He could have said 'sod it, I'll sit on benefits for the rest of my life', but he hasn't. He's done the hard work, he's doing work experience, he's volunteering. He's a child you should be proud of, and he will go far.

TheCrackFox Tue 16-Jul-13 10:23:52

I think exoticfruits son sounds very typical of the youth of today not the lazy arse cliche that the media like to bandy about.

exoticfruits Tue 16-Jul-13 10:24:33

I agree that I am taking it personally but he is one of many- I know so many similar.
The job centre were useless- I'm not surprised there is little interest- I have never heard of it for a start.

exoticfruits Tue 16-Jul-13 10:26:32

Schools are full of DCs that mess about, play up the teachers etc and they are not going to be employable unless they change their attitude. That doesn't mean that they are all like that.

Flobbadobs Tue 16-Jul-13 10:27:37

Quick question on this subject, are children still being pushed into Uni? When I was at school we were effectively given the choice of "you either go to college and Uni or you get a job as a shelf stacker". There was no other advice about work based courses,C&G (as it was way back when!) and no encouragement to find your own way.
This didn't help me at all, I went to college, dropped out and found my own work experience course doing the new NVQ with no outside help.
Is this the advice still given or has it changed and become more broad minded? Are children being given the encouragement while still in school to actually find work and gain qualifications in a different way now, and if not, how does this impact on youth employment?
DS is year 8 and is adamant that he doesn't want to go to Uni, he has a career in mind that will be work based so this is in our interest.

exoticfruits Tue 16-Jul-13 10:30:35

Pushed to Uni- most don't need it. They then get the sort of job that you used to get after O'levels in my day.

I have 10 yrs between my DCs and the job situation is much, much worse than it was 10 yrs ago.

EeTraceyluv Tue 16-Jul-13 10:32:55

It was one of the part grammar, part comprehensive - it's now a comprehensive.

Flobbadobs Tue 16-Jul-13 10:33:06

Thanks exotic, it's just as I feared then..
I know the drop out rate for first year students is pretty high in some places (anecdotal, I have a friend who works in admissions at a large Uni). The penny hasn't dropped then obviously.

Darkesteyes Tue 16-Jul-13 14:21:57

I too agree with Waffly If there is a job that needs doing it should be paid.

Naan in my Op i did state some reasons why young people from all sorts of backgrounds cant take up "oppurtunities" like working for no wage.
If someone is doing a work placement it is highly likely a parent who is on low wages themselves could be struggling to subsidise that. How long are they on work placement with you before you employ them? Im not a young person but i have experienced workfare a couple of times. The most recent time was in very early 2007 I knew it was coming and that travelling to a different town was going to cost extra. In 2006 my DH had a heart attack and was attending a cardiac rehabilitation session once a week at the hospital. He never completed it. He had to stop going so we could save the money on petrol/taxifares because the Job centre were sending me on "placement" which was going to cost us for me to do. But i had no choice because i would have been sanctioned if i hadnt done it. IMO DH not completing that course has not helped his health.

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