To want to be asked about med students being in my appointments?(106 Posts)
Just gone into my 16 week midwife appointment to be faced with two baby faced male med students. I had quite personal questions I wanted to ask and felt like I should have been asked? Maybe I'm overreacting on the subject but with a history of abuse from a former relationship I find it hard enough to have OH in some appointments. I don't really know how to deal with it but it was suggested these students may be present in further appointments.
You are right. 'doctor in training' implies he already is a Doctor .
Maybe he said 'Trainee Doctor' which still sounds better than medical student but is still correct.
Hmm. I think 'Doctor in Training' is a somewhat misleading description for a medical student. To me, it suggests someone who has already qualified as a doctor and is doing their training on the ward. A House Officer, in other words.
YANBU, OP, you should have been asked first. If the midwife had explained and asked your permission, you may have felt comfortable enough to say yes. It's about appropriate boundaries and respect, I think.
I had a trainee GP once who asked if it was ok to video the consultation. Apparently it was so that his manner with patients could be assessed. He explained so nicely, I was quite happy to say yes even though normally I'd be mortified at being filmed. (I hasten to add it was a verbal consult only, no disrobing required!)
If you don't want them in on your next appointment, just give them some pop and crisps and tell them to sit outside
The thing that annoyed my Sis most Blackmini is that whilst they were waiting for the consultant she had spoken the senior nurse on the ward and told her how distressed the girl was and asked her to contact the consultant to tell him that his patient was refusing permission for students, the nurse was very rude ordered her back to bed and to mind her own business, needless to say my Sis ignored her but thought that the nurse should have been on the patients side.
Bloody hell Mrsdavidcaruso! Consultants like that make me very angry.
This reminds my of My Sister ( a mouthy cow at the best of times) she was in a Gynae ward a couple of years ago. The girl in the next bed was sobbing her heart out so Sis went to comfort her.
Turns out the poor girl had two vaginas and two wombs and was crying because her consultant had arranged for for med students to come and have a look as it so rare she didn't want that to happen but was told by her consultant it was a teaching hospital so had no choice.
When the consultant and his students turned up, my sister pulled the curtains round the girls bed barred the way and told the consultant to bugger off and that he had no right to bully the girl into something that was distressing her. The consultant had to leave along with his students but was not happy.
You should always be asked if you consent to students being present. ,y local hospital is a big teaching hospital but they always check if its OK. The only time they didn't was when I was haiv g ds1 and I was 'an interesting and unusual case' they all crowded round and were beyond rude at an incredibly difficult time. I was only 20 and feeling very vulnerable, thankfully the midwife realsied and asked them to back off.
I have always been very happy to have students there/do procedures when this at polite, introduce themselves and ask permission. Of they are rude they can get lost.
So they can learn on someone else if the OP isn't comfortable with it.
I've had them in when DD1 was delivered. I was asked and was fine with it. If I hadn't been, or if the OP isn't, then it should be seen as an affront to decline.
A student midwife delivered DD2. Again, fine with it.
And when DD1 was out of strict isolation, again, fine with having students, some of whom I found rather dense. I was usually not alone in that sentiment. Not everyone who gets into medical school passes. So sue me for having that opinion
Some of them are dense and stupid, in the sense that lateral and joined up thinking is lacking. That's why I wrote some of them.
Why take it personally and get your knickers in a twist about it? Some of them were definitely in grey matter debt no matter how well they could sit tests and read books.
Get old? No, thanks. I plan to end my life long before that, have plenty of reason to do so, and look forward to it.
You should definitely be asked for your consent.
expat they have to learn somewhere and academically are far from stupid.
I've only said no once to them being present in surgery which was likely to involve exposing my fanjo and I work professionally with a lot of them.
LadyBeagles. What a sweeping statement! As the parent of a medical student I would have to disagree. The competition to become a medical student is huge, some Unis get as many as 16 applicants for every place. Most of these applicants will be academically excellent. You may not realise it but the Medical Schools place great importance on 'people skills'. This is why they interview every student (apart from Southampton) and place a lot of importance on personal statements and references. Most applicants will also have done months and months of volunteer work or work experience. Something that would be hard to do if you were socially inept.
I am not saying they are all perfect but I haven't met one yet that lacks 'people skills'.
you should have been asked.
the word 'stupid' is a strange one. the GP who treated my mil like total shit when she was dying no fought had a medical degree but he was most defiantly 'stupid' as to me only really stupid people lack empathy.
her 'carer' was a middle aged woman with no qualifications but did more for her than he did and was defiantly not stupid but kind and caring.
anyone of any mental ability can be stupid.
I don't think medical students are stupid, academically they are the cleverest as standards are very high just to get into med school.
What they are unfortunately lacking is people skills and most are totally unable to interact with a patient.
I think many need some special tutorials on this.
My DS is a medical student. He says that he is often introduced as a 'Doctor in Training' as it sounds better than a medical student. He says that noone has ever asked for him not to be there.
Expat. You must be worried that these stupid students will be responsible for your health care when you get older.
I'm torn on this one. I had students troop in for the delivery of my DS which I wasn't happy about, although I'd consented to students on my birth plan so couldn't really argue. On the other hand, I was told by a doctor friend that having students there makes it more likely the teaching doctor will do everything exactly as they should, so it can be a good thing.
I'm sure it would have put them all off having children for ever though; it really wasn't what you'd call a textbook delivery.
However if you don't want some student there then of course you should be able to say no. you are entitled to privacy and they have plenty of other patients they can observe.
Of course you should be asked and have the right to decline.
Having said that, I delivered DD in a teaching hospital and felt a lot safer because I had double the people in the theatre and I feel that all the consultants/registrars tend to do things "by the book" and operate "best practice" when they're teaching.
Expat- I have a lot of respect for you having seen you posting here for years. I am saddened by what you said about us being stupid. I am lucky in that I am more mature than most of the medical students so I stand up for myself, but a lot of the younger medical students find consultants very intimidating and panic when asked questions.
None of them are stupid, they have all proven that they have more than enough academically to make it through.
DoraExplorer - a couple of questions. Does the medical students' need to learn override the patient's need to discuss something sensitive and private with the doctor alone? And don't you think that, in the OP's scenario, she should have been asked if she minded the medical students being present at the consultation, rather than being presented with a fait accompli?
Obviously you will get the odd rubbishy student. I vividly remember sharing a house with a postgrad medic who was also an elite athlete. She was doing some type of placement on a maternity ward and came home one night saying, "Honestly, some women make such a fuss in labour, I put myself through the pain barrier every day in the gym and I'd never moan like that. Screaming and everything!"
She has probably learnt better by now!
But the vast majority I see at my large local teaching hospital are keen, lovely and attentive. I have never met one I'd describe as stupid or even ignorant.
DoraExplorer1993 - it's not always the "increasingly bitter older generations" denying them the opportunity to learn that's the problem.
We had a medical student sit in on one of DS's paediatric appointments. She couldn't have seemed less interested in learning, and except for when the consultant spoke directly to her and said for her to look at DS's umbilical hernia, she spent the whole appointment studying her fingernails and staring out the window.
I'm guessing that she wasn't very interested in paediatrics, but given her behaviour, her being there seemed utterly pointless so far as her learning went.
Although generally, medical / nursing students are keener than that IME.
The stupidity of some of these students is staggering, too.
Probably because the increasingly bitter older generations increasingly deny them the opportunity to learn...
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