To want to be asked about med students being in my appointments?(106 Posts)
Just gone into my 16 week midwife appointment to be faced with two baby faced male med students. I had quite personal questions I wanted to ask and felt like I should have been asked? Maybe I'm overreacting on the subject but with a history of abuse from a former relationship I find it hard enough to have OH in some appointments. I don't really know how to deal with it but it was suggested these students may be present in further appointments.
You should be asked. I always get to play
freak show teaching case for my physiotherapist's students which I don't mind at all, but he always asks and introduces the student first which is exactly how it should be. I'd complain to the surgery if I were you.
I've posted about this before but, yes you should definitely be asked, although possibly with the students int he room. I had a student midwife at my booking in and one later community midwife appoitment. I work at the university the student midwife was studying at, so I was offered the chance to ask the student to leave, as was she, as soon as I said "oh, I work there". The student looked dumfounded as if she never thought university staff have babies.
Oh I do say no to students doing blood draws or cannulas because I'm not good with needles at the best of times, and even experienced phlebotomists struggle.
Of course you should have been asked first, BUT, how else are students going to learn if people don't let them be in on their consultations? They need to see as many people as possible - the everyday conditions and the unusual.
I would not and have not said no to students being in on my consultations.
Jamdonut did you actually read the OP's posts and see her reasons?
I have a lot of moles that I had checked out once, got called back to a second appointment. I suppose I must have been asked if students could check me out, was asked to undress in a side-room and 60 students from the neighbouring lecture theatre filed past to look at me in my underpants. I didn't really mind, but was slightly miffed when it dawned on me that the only reason for the appointment was so that they could show me off.
On a much more recent occasion there were student nurses and doctors present for a specialist appointment, I would swear that the student doctor looked no more than 12 years old.
I have been asked at GP appointments and at hospital appointments if I mind students being there, and most of the time I don't. But like Horry I do draw the line at blood tests. Even experienced nurses struggle with my veins and I hate needles.
25 years ago when I had DS1 someone sat in on his 6 week check. They asked the doctor's permission but not mine, and nobody told me who she was. The doctor ended up doing all the checks twice for her benefit and then got stroppy because DS started crying . I complained most strongly about that.
They really should ask first.
I would not expect to be asked if I was in a teaching hospital although it is nice if they are introduced. If you don't like students being there all you have to do is ask and they will leave. It isn't difficult just say that you would prefer to be seen just by the Dr or Nurse. If you can't manage that then phone and ask for a note to be put on your file.
I have never minded students being present but I would prefer an experienced member of staff to do cannulas.
They should ask, and you have the right to refuse. I don't refuse because of the moral implications and because I feel I get better care with a student having things explained to them.
Fwiw you might want to discuss your issues with men being present with your mw. Ds had minor complications at birth so there was a male pediatricians there. Happened to quick for me to say anything about his presence or want to. Mauve see if you can have counselling prior to delivery?
In a situation like yours then YANBU and you definitely should have been asked though. It is poor form to spring it on people when they are already in the room. We live in a big teaching hospital area and we're always told when we check in for appointments that there are students and are we ok with it - I see the students sometimes leave after the previous patient and before the next one so I assume some discreet behind the scenes communication gets done between receptionist and doctor. That should have been available for you.
As a more general point though I always agree for students to be in - I don't get the 'I don't want people practising' 'there are lots of others for them to practise on' view (although caveat this is when there are no other sensitive factors involved or previous medical traumas). In my experience which is quite a bit, having students in is fab - they are so very very careful when examining and you tend to get better explanations from the actual doc as they're coaching the students too. I'd rather have careful examination from trainees under supervision than have them suddenly qualified and never have had much expeirence before and be on their own.
Incidentally DS innocent heart murmur was missed for the first 4 years of his life and picked up when he was being a pretend patient for the final MB students at the hospital (yes I like medical students that much we even go along and pretend at being patients in their exams). He'd been seen by docs lots of times (not for cardio stuff) but had his heart listened to by many many consultants, nurses, GPs, registrars etc and it was the super keen students who picked it up!
With my hospital appointments, they always send you a letter which says in it that students may be present and you should say in advance if you don't want them there.
I think it is a rubbish letter: it's 2 sides long, single-spaced, with information repeated, and the bit about students is squashed on the 2nd page. Bet lots of people with poor eyesight/ older people/ people with LDs don't get that far.
That said, I am totally happy with students being present. They have to learn somehow and are mostly
terrified very polite and wide-eyed.
MrsHoarder I strongly disagree that OP requires counselling. Women have a right not to be intimately touched and inspected by men. This is not a problem she needs counselling for, unless she wants it.
YANBU and as a medical student I would be horrifed to know that you hadn't been asked for your permission.
During my labour with DD1, while I was the middle of a two-hour push fest, I was asked if 6 med students could come in. Thankfully they were standing outside the door so could hear me yell "Piss off".
I was given an internal by a med student when pg with DD2. He was so embarrassed that when he was done, he stumbled into a cupboard instead of out of the room! Both me and the mw were in stitches, poor bloke.
But definitely if you do not want a student there you not be forced into it.
I found my otherwise lovely midwife did tend to slip into the "it's ok if X sits in isn't it?" way of "asking" a bit too much for my liking - I've never really minded with 99% of them (I thought it was probably quite good for them in terms of developing into the sort of midwives we actually want to have to see someone dealing with birth trauma having to head into birth number 2 to be honest) but one of them was really bugging me as she had the same sort of persona you'd imagine Vicky Pollard on her GCSE work experience having.
Had a wonderful student midwife though when in and out threatening labour - she just happened to be on shift a few times when I was in (I was in and out like a bloody yo-yo with it stopping and starting) - she explained who she was, that she was almost at the end of her training and had a post lined up at the hospital, that everything would be overseen and how that would be done... she was lovely, absolutely meticulous (to be honest I'd been glad to see there was a student in as I hoped it would be like that) and popped up to the post-natal ward on her tea break to see me when I'd finally had the baby as well bless her.
I don't like being asked in such a way that you feel you've got to say yes though.
I teach medical students.You should always be asked.
Everyone will understand if you say no and they just leave the room.
Not surprisingly male medical students are often asked to leave the room more often than female ones.
You should always be asked first, preferably without the student present or at my previous surgery the doc would come fetch you from the waiting room and student would loiter at least then if you said no they just stay outside.
I've given both answers depending on the reason for the appointment.
I wrote no student midwives on my birthplan which was read. They were present anyway and by the time I had emergency rotational forceps there were about 6 people eagerly looking at my foof being mangled.
Blimey, you should have been asked. I've ALWAYS been asked, be it for a routine appointment, while in labour, or even when I was getting prepped for an EMCS (although I was in a drug addled haze at this point, so I could have imagined it)
Although I've never had a problem with a student being there, I'd be annoyed if no one asked me.
I had a gynae op under general anesthetic and a couple of med students did a practice smear test while I was under. They were asking everyone on the consultants list, and didn't bother me as long as I was still it of it!
Ugh. I hate that idea Starfish - I've never said no to a medical student observing, or praticising, on me, but the thought of someone doing an unnecessary smear while I was unconscious would be too much!
You should always be asked, preferably with the student/s not present. Then you could say briefly the nature of the issue so doc/student can be aware if it's sensitive issue for you. I always agree (how else will they learn about real people), but you are quite within your rights not to agree. Sometimes not great being poked about by students if intimate examination is required! But again, how will they learn.
You should be asked before the consultation starts. If you are not happy then ask them to leave. If you are going for another appointment make your feelings known in advance, either to your midwife or the receptionist. Don't be embarrassed about your feelings.
I have been asked plenty of times, and as a rule I am fairly happy with them being present, however, the ONE time I wasn't asked was when i was actually giving birth and was in no position to quibble . I wasn't overly impressed at feeling like a freak show at the fair, either.
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