to feel a bit upset that my daughter was made to look like she was being unreasonable??(107 Posts)
I hope you managed to talk to a teacher today. The mothers reaction is really worrying, she's teaching him it's ok to invade little girls boundaries... Not ok.
I think what is is the mother's attitude that it was "just" a right of passage
That is not teaching appropriate boundaries to her son
These things do happen, but good schools
and parents would work hard to ensure that the children learn to respect each other. One would have though that by Y2, a child would know that it was not nice to upset someone else and that what they were doing was wrong but if their parent doesn't provide that example and reinforcement..... They are not going to learn that it's not something they should do and yes, in later years, could end up sexually harassing women without even realising it is wrong.
mimitwo - I am sure that the school will be equally disconcerted and will be talking to all the children about
silly games like this. Let us know how you get on.
BTW: I don't think you should even suggest to your dd that she wear shorts under her dress. If she wants to wear shorts on their own, fair enough, but wearing shorts under a dress purely to protect against someone else's actions.... it is just teaching her that she is somehow responsible for the embarassment.
I think it's normal behaviour but that doesn't make it right behaviour and certainly doesn't mean it should be left.
The kissing dare game happened at my sons' school (my youngest is five) and whilst it was all silly innocent cheeky fun, it was also a very good time to talk about social boundaries and appropriate behaviour.
In the first instance it needs to be tackled gently with no child being demonised, but it certainly needs to be tackled.
Of course this mother was in th wrong, hopefully she was caught on the hop though and her instinct was to minimise things. And she'll realise when she gets home that she needs to deal with this behaviour very firmly. it is NOT a rite of passage.
Definitely speak to the teacher. They won't necessarily punish the behaviour, but they'll do some work on boundaries, how we play,
Picardy if this post had been about a little girl mocking the child's pants and getting others to join in I can guarantee that at least one person would have replied to say that girls can be absolute bitches, so it does work both ways. Maybe people tend to notice nasty comments about the sex of child they have more. (I have girls.)
I hope that you have been into the school and complained, OP. Let us know how you get on. I think they would take it very seriously, have a quiet, serious word with the individual in question, have his mother in for a "chat" and also have a general talk with the whole school about appropriate and inappropriate behaviour (without any names being mentioned). I hope that they do explain to this incredibly stupid woman, exactly why what her DS did was totally inappropriate and why her reaction was ridiculous. Any school that accepted that this is a "rite of passage" would be totally out of order and if they tried to defend it (which they won't) I would be taking it further.
That is awful your poor daughter. It most certainly is not a right of passage! The mother's reaction really gets me, what hope does he have if that's her attitude.
Dd and a few other girls had this done in school 2 year's ago and after we all complained the little boy was excluded for a week and quite rightly so it is a massive invasion of personal space and privacy.
Hope your dd is ok op. And second the suggestions of little shorts umder her skirt if it makes her feel more comfortable.
Anyway, OP, sorry for mini-hijack <climbs off soapbox>. YANBU to feel upset both at what happened and at the mother's reaction, which, if I read your OP correctly, is what bothers you almost more. If I had been the mum in your scenario I would have called my son over, made him apologise to your dd there and then, and told both children that nobody is allowed to expose and make fun of others' underwear and nobody should have to put up with it.
Lilac, there is a post a little above mine that says the boy if not dealt with in a presumably draconian punitive manner 'will' (not might, will) 'molest countless other girls... and end up in jail'. It's not the only post in a similar vein.
I am not claiming this boy's actions are OK - far from it -, and I think his mother has some really, really worrying ideas if she considers it a rite of passage that girls have to put up with If one of my sons had done this I would, as I have said, tackle it decisively and appropriately to their age and understanding. But what I am seeing here, and on other threads, is a concerning level of condemnation of what is, after all, a child who, if dealt with appropriately, could learn a valuable lesson and not repeat the behaviour.
I do think boys in general get a rough time on here, from some people's very evident preferences for a girl/gender disappointment to this sort of thing. And it's never girls who are referred to as (ugh) 'little shits' (although the whole 'stroppy little madam' thing some girls get isn't a great deal better).
my seven year old dd has had problems with other girls making fun oe her pants when they were getting changed for pe so i don t think it is just a any thing
As you say OP, you don't let your daughter pull boys' trousers down to laugh at their underwear. So why should your DD expect that treatment as a so-called rite of passage? That boy needs to be taught some boundaries and respect for others' wishes.
I guess all you can do is have a word with teacher since the boy's mother is delusional.
Your poor dd! I'd be straight into school with this one to be honest. Even quicker if I thought it was 'the done thing there'. I know the head of my dd's school would have a fit if she heard this, What sort of message is this boys mother sending him?? Shocking
Would also agree to involving school immediately.
Nasty cowardly little boys like that, unchecked, grow up into disgusting men.
I don't think that people have demonised little boys in general or said he is going to be a serial sexual harasser or worse. But people have reacted strongly as this particular boy didn't just lift up her dress, but laughed at her knickers, then told lots of his friends what he had done so they were laughing at her, then stopped her and her friends on the way home and made fun of her again, telling them all about her knickers. On top of that the mum and her friend tried to make out the OP was making a fuss about nothing. It's not just silly, typical behaviour. It's pretty unpleasant but i don't see where people have demonised all little boys.
Any update OP. Did you manage to speak with the teacher. Hope your dd is feeling a bit better about it all today.
Its totally wrong. I remember having it done in primary back in the 70's!
I don't think it indicates any thing more serious than a badly behaved boy, who forgot how to behave.
Its not sinister but typical , if the boy has not been taught to behave respectfully.
mrs I don't see the sexual abuse connection. If so, then nearly all the boys in class A (1976) were being subjected to it.
Have a word with the teacher - it seems that the boy's parent is also in need of some education.
OP hope you have spoken to the teacher and that the boy has been dealt with.
Your poor DD
to say girls should not wear skirts/ school dresses to avoid this is a bit like saying girls women should not wear short clothes unless they want to be raped, more victim blaming
I just prefer skirts and dresses; in the summer they are much cooler than trousers/ shorts actually i prefer skirts all the time I just find them more comfy it is personally preference and to be perfectly honest unless rock climbing or mountain biking I do not find it prevents me from doing anything
Something similar happened to my son in year 2 too, another boy pulled his trousers down in the playground infront of everyone and laughed at him. It was taken very seriously, the boy was taken to his teacher and spoken to, then the head teacher spoke to him and explained how unacceptable it was, the boy had to apologise, the boys mother was informed at the end of the day, ds's teacher explained to ds that it was unacceptable of the boy and wouldn't happen again, and both me and dp were also informed and reassured that steps were taken to prevent it happening again.
This is completely unacceptable and the mother shouldn't have brushed it off, he made your dd feel awful and the school should be informed.
if cotton dresses are so flipping comfy, why aren't the boys wearing them too? this argument that a dress is practical is nonsense. women wearing trousers for comfort and practicality is hardly pushing boundaries, is it?
I agree. But girls have the advantage of choice. They can wear skirts, dresses, trousers or shorts. Boys only have the choice of trousers and shorts. In hot weather like this, the dresses are far cooler and more comfortable to wear. Most of the Year 2 girls in my school choose to wear dresses at the moment. They are not as practical for play but, at that age, accidently showing underwear doesn't matter and is not a problem for most children.
Being deliberately exposed is different. And that can happen no matter what the child is wearing.
Also, it's not just boys that do this, girls sometimes lift others' dresses too. But schools are very aware of this and will deal with it. It won't be the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. But schools are there to teach so much more than numeracy and literacy. They will take it seriously and they will speak with the boy and possibly his parents.
And could we please stop this revolting habit, which seems to have taken hold on here, of referring to little children as 'little shits'. This boy's behaviour was absolutely out of line, but hearing a child, any child, referred to in this way turns my stomach.
What cory said. Those of you who are painting a future as a serial sexual harasser or worse for this boy are OTT and out of order tbh. Little boys are children and children are not to be demonised. - but I do see a lot of demonising of little boys on MN, sadly.
However, the boy does need to have it made very clear to him that it is not acceptable to do this or similar to any child, girl or boy (and yes, this kind of thing does happen to boys too). I have two sons and if one of them had done this (which tbh I can't imagine either of them doing) there would be an appropriate sanction, if none had been applied at school, and a calm and serious talk about others' (as well as his own) personal and physical autonomy, plus a gentle probe as to whether someone else had done something like that to him. He would also have to apologise to the other child.
Putting shorts/leggings etc under your dds' dresses sends entirely the wrong message IMO - it sends the message that girls can/should avoid harassment by adapting the way they dress
a) This is not a perversion as some posters have claimed: from the little boy's pov it is just a silly game. It doesn't mean he is a sexual pervert who will end in jail.
b) However, like a lot of other silly games that young children like to do (e.g. hitting each other over the head with large sticks) it is not acceptable and the school needs to put a stop to it now.
c) Wearing shorts won't solve the problem (boys pull down each other's shorts); firm handling by the school, and the threat of punishment, will solve the problem.
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