To feel very sorry for Raffaele Sollecito?(268 Posts)
He was interviewed on that turgid telly programme Daybreak this morning. He has a re-trial hanging over his head and says he doesn't know how much longer he can go on.
I'm in the 'they weren't involved' camp, but even if I wasn't, he was acquitted of the crime he was accused of. Surely it isn't right to dangle this over his head forever. Imagine living with that. Must be awful.
I remarked that I felt sorry for him to another parent this morning who was discussing it and she said "Well your sympathy is misplaced." I don't think that I am being U in feeling sympathy for him, or Amanda Knox.
After skim reading through these comments I can honestly say I am appalled that so many people feel fit to comment on this case when they have failed to do any research whatsoever.
For starters, it seems we have a number of mothers on this board who are happy with animal pornography. Personally, I find this to be as evil and disgusting as child pornography. Sollecito, the pervert many here are happy to champion, has a factually proven addiction to animal porn! As far as I am concerned, he should be locked up for this alone!
The father of Meredith Kercher, the only victim here, has been privy to vastly more information, fact and evidence that a single person on this board, and he has confirmed that he believes Knox is guilty. Both Knox and Sollecito were joined at the hip and it goes without saying that he was also involved.
It takes in excess of 8 hours to read thoroughly through the Micheli and the Massei Reports, and more time still to read the Galati over-turning but you do then put yourself in the position of knowing what you are talking about, unlike the armchair pundits on this post.
Sollecito left his DNA on poor Meredith's bra clasp, and both Knox and Meredith's biological material was on a knife found in Sollecito's kitchen drawer!!! This is a tiny percentage of the evidence against them!
Rather than sympathise with the two people who tortured poor Meredith to death why don't you try putting yourself in the Kerchers shoes! Imagine if they noticed this board and read these comments! Most of the commentators here are completely ignorant of the facts and have moronically fallen for the misrepresentations vomited out by the Knox PR machine! Shame on them!
Interesting thought - if they had been poor and black.....There would have been none of the media demonization/hysteria. Would that have guaranteed them a fairer trial? it would have been based on the evidence alone? Would they have had the wherewithal to appeal?
Its not a case that "he is black, must be guilty" He was given a much lighter sentence than the other 2 despite being the only one who the evidence put at the scene.
I do get your argument Chunder but don't think this is the best case to argue it. As in the black guy - ie Rudy Guede undoubtedly did it. DNA on poor Meredith's body, hand prints, foot prints, fleeing abroad etc, and the white MC "good looking" ones got all the attention from the press and longer sentences initially despite there being a total lack of evidence. This was more about face saving on the part of the Italian police than racism.
We can't really see it here, only speculate, because both of them are white, middle class and good looking. But there is quite a lot of literature suggesting that being black would've made things worse for them because it does generally. Obviously, if innocent, they've been through a colossal amount. It's just that it could've been even worse and might well have been if not for their race and class. The issue isn't so much how many people believe them to be guilty, it's whether even more people would do if they had different racial and social backgrounds.
I kind of see where you're coming from, Chunder. Police racism IS institutional and DOES affect outcomes of cases. Look at the poor Lawrences. And the countless cases in the U.S of black men being locked up for crimes that it was doubtful that they committed...
I just don't see it here, though. I think that there are more people that believe that AK and RS are guilty than not. And I think that a lot of people giving them the benefit of the doubt are doing just that, rather than reading through reports/evidence and knowing that they've been victims of injustice. Even if the retrial finds them not guilty (which I think it will) they aren't going to have an easy life. I don't think that class/colour has defended them from much.
It's tragic all round, this case. The life lost, the lives ruined.
Rudy Guede was a lost child-adopted, messed-up, but so far as we know until this case had never done anything violent. AK and RS-well, I'm not in the convinced-of-their-innocence-camp, but the legal morass they've fallen into is appalling, and devastating for both families. Patrick Lumumba had an awful time, and what the Kerchers have gone through doesn't bear thinking about.
If these two are acquitted again they'll still be up against it financially and many won't believe they deserved to be acquitted. They have to live with that stigma. If they are found guilty, many won't believe that either and the controversy will drag on.
As an example of how not to conduct a murder inquiry and trial process, it could hardly be bettered.
Marmalade I think the point is that if Knox and Sollecito hadn't been white and middle class, their positions would've been much worse and perhaps people would have been less willing to give them any benefit of the doubt. Which is probably true. There's been quite a lot of research done about how black people tend to be more harshly penalised within criminal justice systems. Especially when the victims are lighter skinned than they are.
"Also, people saying that they would never have caved or reacted as AK did under the kind of pressure that She was put under during her interviews/interrogation - well as soon as someone says something so stupid I just can't take you seriously"
Also, people saying that they would never have caved or reacted as AK did under the kind of pressure that She was put under during her interviews/interrogation - well as soon as someone says something so stupid I just can't take you seriously.
I remember when this first broke in the press. Had no idea if AK or RS were guilty or not. Jus remember beng furious and frustrated at the the way it was reported and AK especially was demonised. Even if she had been proven to be guilty, the coverage and the way she was portrayed and tried b media was appalling.
Chunder, they don't of course they don't. Press time is given to "sexy" victims. Or sexy criminals. 2 women a week are killed by their partners. Yet indiscriminate air time is given to the likes of AK. This thread is odd because it is not about her at all. But it all comes back to her. The op asked if she could feel sorry for Rafaelle. Someone much overlooked.
I'm sure that AK and RD don't feel that their class or race helped them any. They've been ripped to shreds, regardless of their personal circumstances. How, exactly, has their race or class helped them?
That's a rhetorical question, btw
But it is not what we are discussing here. A whole other thread you should start I think.
I totally agree that press attention is linked to certain "attributes". Already on this thread the question of class, colour, money have come up. None of these thins remotely influence the facts.
While we're on the topic of race and class privilege in this case, let's not pretend that only applies to Knox and Sollecito. Had they been suspected of murdering a poor black person, for example, no doubt it would've been less newsworthy. Lots of black feminists have written about how white victims get more coverage, more sympathy, more everything. They're not wrong. And look at, say, the epidemic of disappeared Native women in Canada, which nobody seems to give a fuck about. I realise poor Meredith was biracial, but as she had an Anglo name and was light skinned that wasn't immediately obvious to everyone. She was also, like Amanda, very pretty, clever and from a naice family. The ideal victim, if you like. When women disappear or get murdered and they've had the bad sense to be black, or poor, or easily discredited, or an illegal immigrant, the world gives much less of a shit. I trust, then, that the people outraged at the sympathy given to Knox and Sollecito make just as much noise about the comparative invisibility of black and poor victims. Both things stem from the same racist shit.
link here in case anyone does not believe how the uk press reacted to their acquittal.
And it is interesting how It always comes back to AK when this is not what the thread was about. I am probably equally guilty.
And if MNHQ are referring to personal insults, there is more than one way to personally insult, as Wuldric aptly demonstrates above...
And as someone obviously reported this thread, I would like to make clear to MNHQ that they were both acquitted and in my view commenting on their innocence does not breach talk guidelines.
Agree. It makes me so fucking cross that people rehash the daily fail view each time this topic comes up here. Anyone with a brain can see there is no evidence. This was epitomised by the daily fail headline that they published the night they were acquitted. Guilty, and supposed comments from all those involved. Totally made up. It was quickly deleted of course.
Amanda Knox was interrogated by police for 43 hours over 5 days after the murder. The last 8 hours, 12 detectives interviewed her overnight from 10.30pm to 6.30am in Italian when she had only the basics of the spoken language.
Fresh pairs of detectives came in every so often to renew the pressure. They asked the same questions over and over, they shouted, they told her to imagine their chosen scenario. They (allegedly) hit her on the back of the head.
She had no food or drink and was menstruating. When she asked whether she should have a lawyer, she was told 'it would make it worse'. Why? Why would the police deny her her basic rights?
If you are seeking the truth you make the person comfortable and relaxed.
If you want to confuse and break someone, this aggressive interrogation technique is a trusted tactic. (See FBI agent Steve Moore's comments about this in connection with the case http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI7.html)
As mothers we have probably all suffered minor sleep deprivation with newborns. Can you imagine Amanda's state of mind after this final ruthless interrogation? Its aim is to deplete the person of rational thought, to make them anxious and confused and pliable.
I wonder how we - or our daughters - would have reacted in the same circumstances at that age in a strange country and a strange tongue.
Before she was even tried, Amanda was kept in jail ('for her own good') because she was considered a flight risk. Raffaele Sollecito was kept in solitary for six months. Six months in solitary. Imagine it.
They are both innocent, they are both victims and they and their families are financially broke. There is no evidence against them. and the Italian Supreme Court's ruling has ensured that their recently reclaimed lives are now firmly on hold. Maybe for years and years and years.
New Scientist's latest report on new software to detect DNA supports the innocence of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. (See http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23790-software-says-amanda-knoxs-dna-wasnt-at-crime-scene.html#.UdMqNfnrx2M)
My heart bleeds for Meredith Kercher and her family, but two wrongs do not make a right.
It appears from the appeal report that under Italian law she was guilty of incriminating Lumumba but they took her age and the circumstances into account re. Sentencing. but they were very clear that despite what she said, it did not necessary implicate her in the murder - which was the prosecutions approach.
What Sashh said about the Italian justice system.
And yes, even if a person has definitely committed another crime, say shoplifting, I would still have sympathy with them if they were falsely accused of murder.
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