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to demand a child is excluded from school?

(165 Posts)
Tubemole1 Fri 17-May-13 23:12:54

I will try and keep this as brief as poss. My daughter is in Y1 and one of her classmates, a boy, often harrasses her. She has been pinched and hair pulled during carpet time and put in a headlock during playtime. I have asked for this boy to stay away from my daughter and her teacher has made efforts to do so.

Today, the same boy attacked four girls. He bit one on the neck and drew blood. Another girl was bitten on the arm five times, no blood. My daughter was attacked as well but she managed to escape with no injury. Obviously my fellow mums and I are outraged. Nothing was done to discipline the boy, so he can't grasp the enormity of the fallout of his actions. My daughter, certainly, was left shaken, trying to make sense if it. This boy has a fascination with vampires, but we all wonder what has he seen to act this way?

I am all for complaining to the school, but dh wants our daughter to just kick him in the balls if he tries again. What message will that give, when she has to fight back to survive?

My daughter is a toughie, and can defend herself, but she bottles up her true feelings. The teacher doesn't see that she's upset, because she only lets it go when she's home, and we have a blubbering child needing our care and understanding. Is it unreasonable to ask the school makes sure our kids are safe thru the day, and this boy is either excluded, or has some sort of intervention?

OhLori Fri 17-May-13 23:50:31

Unscrupulous headteachers eat lone/individual parents complaining about genuine issues for breakfast; perhaps that is just my personal experience. But then again, look at the concurrent thread on a teacher wanting to resign regarding a violent primary pupil. Yes, try and get support from other parents. If you have an open and honest approach you'll get the gist of where the school is coming from, in the way they deal with this. But I would (from my own miserable experience) suggest having some back up or at least a witness. And put it out of your mind till Monday and have a great weekend.

seeker Fri 17-May-13 23:51:35

who told you the details of what happened?

zipzap Sat 18-May-13 00:02:02

Just remember to take your own meeting minutes and send them to the head and other mums there. Also include your own reactions to the meeting in a separate section; eg if you still dint think the head is treating it seriously. and finish with a summary of the actions that you would like the school to do, even if in the minutes (making sure it is more about things like protecting your dc from boy, making sure they are aware that he is being punished (even if they don't know details) so they can see that everybody does get punished for bad behaviour plus to reassure them their fears about this child and their injuries are being taken seriously.

And then copy them to the governors, the local education office at the council and Ofsted and see what happens...

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Sat 18-May-13 00:13:01

How do you know what action has/hasn't been taken regarding the incident?

Why not find out before you go into school in a gang with all guns blazing?

Though I understand the rage you feel re your child, you will not get the best result for her by ranting and raving and organising a witch hunt.

handmedownqueen Sat 18-May-13 00:14:02

As the mum of a year 1 boy with autistic spectrum who hurts other children occasionally can I suggest its probab ly a bit more complex? I'm horrified if he does hurt someone and do everything I can to make him undertand its wrong and to have a consequence but ultimately the key is equipping him to recognise when he is getting tense and angry and communicate that which is difficult at 5
He needs to be kept safe from hurting others by his 1 to 1 support as do the other children need to be kept safe
Ultimately he has the same statutory right to an education and has been assessed as needing 1 to 1 support in mainstream but a small classroom with 30 kids is challenging. Yes other kids must be protected but if my son was excluded what then? He's extremely bright and needs mainstream, the private sector wouldn't have the skills for him and he is too bright for statementing to a special school. Give up work and home educate? Or do what the specialists suggest and work with him to manage in mainstream. Please try to understand that as I'm sure the boy in your example has similar needs

OhLori Sat 18-May-13 00:19:11

Nobody should go in "with all guns blazing", I don't think anyone suggested that or a witch-hunt. But neither does one want blood drawn in the classroom on one's child or other children dismissed as normal or acceptable hmm. I am sure OP will be able to glean what is going on. Try not to lose your temper, watch, listen and observe (sighs, but I honestly hope you have a good result!).

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Sat 18-May-13 00:29:33

I'm sure you can't mean that I would wish it to be dismissed as normal or acceptable hmm

OhLori Sat 18-May-13 00:35:38

I have no idea. Schools seem to operate by their own undeciperable rules now, to do with various agendas and agencies. Even if you have a straightforward problem IMO it can become a "PC" issue or whatever. I don't trust head-teachers or even teachers to have normal standards, but perhaps that's from my own experience.

GoblinGranny Sat 18-May-13 07:42:44

'I don't trust head-teachers or even teachers to have normal standards'

I started off teaching in a lovely, leafy area of the country, with the majority of the population just like me in values and income levels and wotnot.
Then I moved to a polar opposite, with levels of poverty and unemployment, undx SN and neglect and parents of 15 and 16 the norm and a level of brutality in dealing with problems that I'd only read about as cases.
When I moved again, I was more able to spot the times when in my lovely. leafy area there were similar situations of neglect and poverty and stress and abuse and SN lurking underneath the smooth surface that was all I'd seen in my first few years of teaching.

Normal standards compared to what you think is normal limits them to your own experience. Schools should be working within the many guidelines we have to safeguard and meet the needs of all the children they are responsible for.
As I said in my first post, whatever this child's needs they are not being met, and you should go in and meet with the school head and insist that they act more effectively.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Sat 18-May-13 08:00:09

Yes exactly.. 'guidelines to safeguard and meet needs of all the children they are responsible for' is how it should be.

This is not making it a 'PC issue', ohlori.

I think you should talk to the school, OP, no idea how you know he wasn't disciplined at all.

seeker Sat 18-May-13 08:05:37

"But neither does one want blood drawn in the classroom on one's child or other children dismissed as normal or acceptable ."

What a very bizarre thing to say!

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Sat 18-May-13 08:09:28

Yes,I think it's fine, give them all wee knives so they can fight it out.


headlesslambrini Sat 18-May-13 08:15:12

if your DD kicks him in the balls, in self-defence or not, then you may find that it's your DD who gets excluded, and rightly so.

seeker Sat 18-May-13 08:15:37

I agree. It's PC gone mad, I tell you.

JakeBullet Sat 18-May-13 08:27:15

Your poor DD flowers.

Firstly I would say that YANBU to ask the school what they are doing to keep your DD safe. Yes this other child MAY have some undiagnosed SN but this is the school's issue and if he is "a loose cannon" then he needs appropriate support which will allow other children to be kept safe. My DS is autistic with ADHD and in Y1 he bit another child (for the first time ever) and I was mortified. To the achool's credit they identified that he needed much more supervision at break time to help him understand and recognise his emotions. Now in Y5 he is an old hat at this and has his own beanbag in one of the offices where he can take himself off to calm down.

I think in regards to other parents it's up to each parent to write in individually and ask how their children are being kept safe. All this is "evidence" for the school to take to the LA and ask for extra support for this child. Not only will you be helping the school, you will be playing your part in helping keep children safe. School's CAN and DO exclude children where the safety of other children is compromised, but in practice this is only for a few days while they make plans for reintroducing the child with appropriate support.

Our school excluded a Y3 child who was like this...he was subsequently diagnosed with ADHD. He was excluded for three days and in that three days the school had got the LA involved and the boy was reintroduced three days later with 1-1 support. He is now on medication (we are two years down the line) and is well settled in school....more importantly there are now no incidents and he is a valued member of the school.

Definitely speak to the Head, he/she may well not be able to tell you details about this other child but CAN tell you how your DD will be kept safe.

GoblinGranny Sat 18-May-13 08:34:34

I've taught older children who were aggressive and biters and hitters.
Children from large families with negligent parenting, used to fighting for turf.
Children with alcoholic or drug-abusing parents
Children with violent parents.
Children who had abused backgrounds in so many ways.
Children from over-indulgent parents who were not used to being crossed or thwarted in any way.
Children whose parents encouraged them to see what they wanted was the priority and they were to go for it through any obstacle
This list could be twice as long, and include SN as only on of the many possibilities.

The school needs to deal with all of their children.

greenformica Sat 18-May-13 08:44:19

Write to the school and formally ask what action has been taken?

LIZS Sat 18-May-13 08:45:12

You can't tell them how to do their job ! You don't know what the boy's background or needs may be and have no right to know what action may be happening behind the scenes .However you can present it in terms of the right of your children to be safeguarded and secure while in the school's care. Check the safeguarding and behaviour policy. All you can do is request reassurances to that effect and document the meeting.

Inertia Sat 18-May-13 08:55:45

You don't have the right to demand that the child is excluded - you don't have the right to know what action the HT has taken.

However, your daughter is entitled to be kept safe at school.

I would write a letter to the Chair of Governors and HT, copying in the class teacher and LA person with responsibility for safeguarding, explaining that the school is failing to safeguard your child. I would list all the incidents and resultant injuries and medical treatment required, and I'd suggest that the other parents do the same. This isn't spite - the school needs vast amounts of evidence to get extra support for children, and it sounds as though this child needs one to one support.

Retaliation is likely to get your daughter into trouble as well, and could escalate the situation with this boy. Personally I don't see how people justify using violence to demonstrate that violence is wrong - and it makes it very difficult for you to take your argument about lack of safeguarding any further if your DD responds with violence. Perhaps you and the school can agree about what she should do if she is attacked (e.g. loudly shouting " Get off me Boris!" to instantly draw the teacher's attention? )

Sunnymeg Sat 18-May-13 08:58:08

I too think you can learn a lot about the child from

Sunnymeg Sat 18-May-13 09:01:45

I too think you can learn a lot from observing the child's parents. But it does sound to me like a child who is struggling for some reason and striking out because of it.

HollyBerryBush Sat 18-May-13 09:02:12

One pertinent point is over looked here. No school will discuss another child with you, sanctions or otherwise, any more than they would discuss your daughter with another parent.

Sunnymeg Sat 18-May-13 09:02:37


scaevola Sat 18-May-13 09:05:21

In OP she says she knows action is being taken, because the teacher has been making efforts to keep them apart.

If despite extra vigilance, attacks are continuing, then she needs to ask for even more supervisory measures to keep her DD safe, and every other child in the class. But shouldn't expect any information on the school's intervention with a pupil to whom she is unrelated. Even if the additional supervision is not yet sufficient, it is in indicator that the school is acting.

No, don't tell DD to fight back. Because it complicates things for DD (she may get in trouble for fighting too, and that might upset her further). Also, the basic point that if your child doesn't fight, then the chances of her retaliation being ineffective are just too high. If she fights back and he laughs, or attacks harder and wins, then she will be in a much worse position, especially if she is thus humiliated in front of classmates.

saintlyjimjams Sat 18-May-13 09:14:06

Do NOT club together and go en masse to the head - that's an awful way to manage it. That happened in ds3's class. There were some issues in the classroom but the letter was horrible (& actually ridiculous - I spend my life dealing with challenging behaviour & what they were demanding was bonkers). I was asked to sign, refused & told the letter writers & head what I thought of the letter. There were some children in the class who needed extra support but a group of year 3 parents clubbing together to complain about particular children was just bullying IMO & I wanted nothing to do with it. It was very divisive.

Go & see the head yourself to talk about your dd (and let the other parents do the same - individually). That's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, expecting good communication is also reasonable - you can expect the school to keep you informed. But clubbing together is rarely helpful IMO.

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