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to think friend's ex-husband isn't to blame in this instance?

(121 Posts)
enpointe Sun 12-May-13 14:12:35

My friend split up from her husband a year ago, and they have two pre-school children. I'm using the word 'friend' here for the sake of convenience: while on the one hand we haven't fallen out as such, her behaviour to me at a mutual friend's wedding was so appalling I am trying to distance myself from her.

The reasons the marriage broke down were quite complex but ultimately, the husband did have an affair with another woman, who he left my friend for. I don't condone this behaviour for a minute. However, it also has to be said that he had reason to be very unhappy in the marriage, mainly due to the housework and childcare (he did everything, despite the fact she was a sahm and he worked full time) and she has struggled with keeping the house safe and hygienic to the point where social services have been involved. A custody battle was started then, and he was given more access to their children (50-50)

Anyway things broke down to the point where they weren't being civil to one another as he was getting a lot of requests for the same amount of money he was paying to start with even though the children were with him less time. He started to get an increasing number of texts/voicemails just saying "ring me, urgent." He asked her not to do this because it made him panic but she carried on, so he has changed his phone no and asked for contact to be via the solicitor or through email only.

Is he BU? She thinks so.

TheSecondComing Mon 13-May-13 16:45:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

badinage Mon 13-May-13 16:33:16

I think truth and facts did a runner the moment this OP was written though, don't you?

This is just another OW who's got nothing better to do than post a thread complaining about her predecessor's slovenly ways. It wouldn't exercise a psychologist's expertise to guess why an OW is insecure enough to do that, but thank goodness most folk were able to see right through it and didn't give the OP the satisfaction of joining in with her slating of a woman who's been deceived and lied to.

TheSecondComing Mon 13-May-13 16:31:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shewhowines Mon 13-May-13 16:26:24

But people have been laying all the blame at his door without knowing all the facts.

If he's got them for 4 days a week and is contributing to clothes/school trips/day to day living expenses then yes her money should be reduced to reflect that if he genuinely can't afford more. Obviously he should pay over the odds, as should all absent parents, if they can.

Op said he asked her to reduce the number of "urgent" call which weren't urgent. If this is true and she ignored it, wouldn't you get fed up?
Depends on context again.

badinage Mon 13-May-13 16:12:46

But we weren't asked whether we thought this man's wife was a nice person, or was without fault for anything, ever.

We were asked whether this manfriend of the OP was being unreasonable for wanting to pay less money for his kids and for changing his phone number so his exW can't contact him directly, even when she's got sole care of his kids.

Most folk disagreed with the OP and suggested that those actions were indeed unreasonable.

shewhowines Mon 13-May-13 15:41:58

Badinage, don't bother interacting with a sexist who hides behind calmness whilst speaking offensive, misogynist crap. Allow me to demonstrate. Check out his moniker.

She Who Wines.

Sorry posted too soon. Am laughing so much at specialagents post.

Believe me I am not a defender of all men and I am definitely a woman. I have seen some men behave spectacularly disgracefully and know what they are capable of. Just in this instance and given these facts then i can't see how it can all be this blokes fault, especially given that she's such a nice person that she stole from the op and her daughter.

shewhowines Mon 13-May-13 15:36:07

*Badinage, don't bother interacting with a sexist who hides behind calmness whilst speaking offensive, misogynist crap. Allow me to demonstrate. Check out his moniker.

She Who Wines.*

badinage Mon 13-May-13 14:25:07

Quite right SpecialAgent.

Mediators and family courts are wising up now to fathers who go for 50% as a means of paying less, rather than seeing their children more and sure enough, this man's main complaints to his woman friend OP that he's only met once are that he's still paying out more money than he wants to and that his discarded wife has the brass neck to want to contact him about their children.

Not that he's concerned about his children's welfare, or that he doesn't see them enough, or that the place he's bought is too small, or that if he stops paying the same amount of money, his kids might suffer.

Funny that....

FryOneFatManic Mon 13-May-13 13:22:52

I've just read this thread and the impression I'm left with is that the ExW probably became depressed (hence the poor hygiene, etc) because of the H's affair. I'll bet it was going on long before it became public knowledge, and indeed long before the ExW was aware or suspicious of it too.

From reading the relationships board, it seems a common pattern that when one partner is having an affair, the unsuspecting other partner can end up with other issues like depression because they are aware something is not right but can't put their finger on what is wrong. It seems common for these issues, which have been caused by the affair, to then be used by the cheating partner to justify all sorts of behaviour.

OP, I don't reckon this husband is as great as you believe if he bailed out to live with the OW while his Ex was struggling. And I agree that he can't be so great as he CHOSE to leave his DCs in that situation.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 12:27:02

Oh and OP you are this woman's friend?!?! As in you support and comfort her? shock

No matter who's 'right' in the break up, you're one Fucking Hell of a backstabbing censored 'friend.'

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 12:24:40

Badinage, don't bother interacting with a sexist who hides behind calmness whilst speaking offensive, misogynist crap. Allow me to demonstrate. Check out his moniker.

She Who Wines.

Lovely, just lovely.

CoalDustWoman Mon 13-May-13 12:22:49

How does the 2 bed work on the 4 days he has them?

shewhowines Mon 13-May-13 12:21:23

Sorry, I used the custody battle thing out of context. It didn't go through the courts, it was a sort of verbal battle and eventually the compromise of the kids being with the XH four days a week was reached.

He did want them full time - a compromise was reached.
Normally the kids stay with their mother. The two bed, only became a problem because she wasn't coping and the Dh realised he need to have them more for their own sakes.

Basically we just don't know, but he doesn't seem an uncaring father to me.

badinage Mon 13-May-13 11:49:47

He didn't ask for 'custody'. He's been nowhere near a family court.

According to the OP, he was only given 50 percent residence because he chose to buy a 2 bedroomed place that's already up to full occupancy because he's living with OW and her child.

You wouldn't judge a mother who walked out for an OM and his child and failed to exercise her children's rights to live in a clean, stable environment?


shewhowines Mon 13-May-13 11:35:43

It beats me why so many women just hate other women and think that fatherhood is an optional activity.

Why do some women just hate men?

In this case, he didn't want fatherhood to be optional. He asked for custody, given the circumstances where the ex wife wasn't coping. It was decided in mediation that it would increase to only 50;50 because his living conditions weren't as roomy as hers.

The op has said that the house was in an ok state when he was living there but deteriorated afterwards. She did not look after the house or kids either then or now when there is no one to do it for her. She is willing to let the kids suffer rather than do anything herself.

Now, i may be wrong but there is a lot of supposition on here but my interpretation is that the marriage was over long before he had the affair. Indeed he moved out within a couple of months of the affair starting.

How do we know that he was not miserable for a long time beforehand and only stayed for the kids? How do we know that he didn't try to support her? He obviously did by taking on the housework and general looking after the children. When is enough, enough?

We do not know what really went on in the relationship, but IMO (without hating men or women) given the facts that we have been given it is not all his fault - although he should have ended it before having an affair if it was that bad.

badinage Mon 13-May-13 11:15:00

Completely agree Eldritch. The OP would be excoriating about a woman who worked full-time, then had an affair and left her kids with a father who was either abusive or had mental health issues.

It beats me why so many women just hate other women and think that fatherhood is an optional activity.

EldritchCleavage Mon 13-May-13 11:04:02

The husband is not on the moral high ground here, whatever the ex-W has done, and for one simple reason: it got to the point their living conditions were so bad (which by the way must mean he wasn't doing much domestic work either) that he had to leave, but HE LEFT HIS CHILDREN THERE IN ALL THE MESS.

I work full-time, and DH is SAHD. At times when DH has not been coping (after MIL died v. suddenly, when he and SIL had their final, horribly painful never-to-be-repaired breach), I have done the whole fucking lot, full-time work, domestic chores, all the children's night-time wakings, weekends, cooking, admin, you name it. I'm not looking a for medal here, I've got plenty of failings as a parent and a person. But I can't stand men bailing out and getting so much sympathy for it when a woman would be excoriated in the same circumstances.

Not saying he should have carried her forever, but at least done it short-term to encourage her to get some help, and if she can't or won't, take your bloody children with you so they don't have to live the nightmare either. What's so hard about cleaning the house after work? It's what single people do.

badinage Mon 13-May-13 09:43:19

This is yet another bloke who's shirked his fathering responsibilities, given up exercising his children's rights and the OP is yet another doozie who thinks he's right to do so. As long as there are idiots around who excuse fathers for their atrocious behaviour towards their kids, men will keep doing it.

sweetsummerlove Mon 13-May-13 09:42:01

Not really sure how it concerns you..tbh?

would love to know who this other woman is.....suspicious

OTheHugeManatee Mon 13-May-13 08:05:05

Wow. A lot of projecting happening on this thread, I think.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Mon 13-May-13 03:35:24


OW is a prize cunt for getting in with a married man. Hope she never sees one of her better children get fucked over.

EXH a prize cunt for having an affair and abandoning his children.

Am I the only one who thinks "hmm gee wizz we here this unstable ex story an awful lot (Stable enough to look after the children he fathered but isn'y interested in, OFC) Perhaps the more likely scenario is she found out what a little cock he is, booted him out so he went to his second choice OW and explained all the stress and depression XW was going through forced him to leave as he couldn't cope with a sexless marriage where we worked like a servant around the house.

I know which story I believe is true. Seen it too many times on here.

OP/OW,you 'won.'Don't be even MORE stupid by becoming pregnant. If you do, you and child will be in the same place EXW is now

Many prayers for her and her childcare.

Apologies for the typos.

Enjoy eating your leftovers off someone else's plate.

Bogeyface Sun 12-May-13 23:11:17

This is a man who is trying to excuse his shitty behaviour at a) having an affair, b) leaving a woman who clearly has/had mental health issues and c) leaving his children with that woman.

If she was so shit then he would have either left with the kids or taken steps to have her removed from the family home. He did neither. He buggered off to live with his shag in a nice new flat where no one was making demands on him.


LineRunner Sun 12-May-13 21:59:16

CP = child protection

maddening Sun 12-May-13 21:52:11

so was as involved while they were still married/together?

WafflyVersatile Sun 12-May-13 21:48:12

What is a CP plan?

I know someone who tried to leave his abusive wife (no, I'm not before you ask)

He didn't in the end because he didn't feel strong enough to battle her for custody, FOG?, when she was threatening that he would not see his kids again if he left and all the other manipulation etc. He also couldn't bring himself to 'hurt her' by leaving with the kids. He didn't know the proper way to leave an abusive relationship. And his efforts resulted in threats and abuse. He downplayed her behaviour. He tried what he thought was best but he had not had suitable advice and ended up moving back in and having a nervous breakdown. Men know/fear that working full-time versus SAHM means they will not get custody.

He also did more childcare and more housework than her despite him working ft and her being a SAHM. I think this thread reminded me of that.

I'm really quite shocked here sometimes at what seem to me double standards. Poor brave abused women. Spineless cowardly men.

Part of me hopes this is him. Even if his kids are not with him 100%

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