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To think that no child should be allowed to ruin the learning of 29 children

(378 Posts)
ReallyTired Wed 08-May-13 09:35:05

My son's year 6 class has been constantly distruped by one or two children. It is unfair that 28 children cannot learn because of the behaviour of one or two.

I feel it really doesn't matter what the reason is for a child who constantly misbehaves (before someone gets out the flame thrower/ violin) the other children have a right to learn in a calm ordered environment. Often badly children do not have learning difficulties or difficult family circumstances.

Or put it another way some children with special needs or a difficult home life have explematory behaviour.

It is not fair that many hard working children have to put up with child X making stupid noises (NOT TOURETTES or any other special need) or constantly shouting out or arguing with the teacher because their parents can't afford private school.

It would be interesting to know what other countries do with children who constantly distrupt the class. (Other than using the cane.)

I believe that Britain's in ablity to deal with low level disruption in the classroom has reduced social mobility.

BeerTricksPotter Wed 08-May-13 10:00:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MidniteScribbler Wed 08-May-13 10:04:27

Perhaps being in the class will teach your child some tolerance and consideration for others. Lord knows he won't be learning it from you.

Poledra Wed 08-May-13 10:04:42

When I were a lass, way back when, there was a peripatetic school psychologist who visited our school at least once a fortnight. She had a roster of children that she saw. Some of these children had SEN, some had behavioural issues (the roots of these issues were many and varied, from crap parenting to dreadful life events and everything else). Her purpose was to help these children, to give them coping strategies, to help them achieve positive behaviour and therefore actually start to learn something at school.

You don't get this anymore, as they were too expensive. Any parent of a child with SEN can tell you just how fucking hard it is to get any help for their child, despite clear evidence for the need for it. A child who is poorly parented is unlikely to have parents who will fight for their needs.

Our lack of provision for the right help for these children is what is at fault. And I don't really blame the teachers for this either - they are doing the best they can (in most cases) with the limited resources they have to hand.

Minifingers Wed 08-May-13 10:07:33

The OP reminds me of my SIL, who was outraged at her child PFB having to learn ALONGSIDE CHILDREN WITH SPECIAL NEEDS.

"It is not fair that many hard working children have to put up with child X making stupid noises (NOT TOURETTES or any other special need)"

My son has asd and yes - makes stupid noises. I assume that most parents of other children are not aware that he has a diagnosis of ASD, because luckily kids like him are not made to wear a special badge so that parents know his behaviour is 'not his fault'. Or mine. grin However, when I read comments like the OP's it makes me wonder whether I should buy him a t-shirt like this.

Sparhawk Wed 08-May-13 10:12:19

Send them all to borstal /Daily Mail.

jellybeans Wed 08-May-13 10:12:26

YANBU Is your child in my DCs class? I am fed up of two boys who disrupt the class for everyone else. One child just has parents who thinks it is funny and give him no boundaries at all. The other uses a diagnosis as an excuse for everything even violence and bullying he just says,' I have ..... so you can't tell me off'. His parents also say that to anyone who complains..Yes he needs support etc because of his issues but that doesn't mean bad behaviour (extreme racism, violence, calling the girls extreme sexual derogatory comments) should be tolerated as well as daily violence and bullying to the rest of the class. Any violence and bullying they should be excluded until they can behave. Not fair to affect the kids who are behaving.

BumpingFuglies Wed 08-May-13 10:12:53

Isn't this a teaching/management issue? Or shall we just herd the naughty kids into a corner so that the good ones can get on?

hazeyjane Wed 08-May-13 10:14:05

Yes to what Hecsy and Fanjo and all the other sensible and tolerant posters have said.

Ptttsshaaaawwwww to the flamethrower/violin comment

Round of applause to Fanjo for managing to commit flamethrower hara kirismile

BeerTricksPotter Wed 08-May-13 10:17:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

elliejjtiny Wed 08-May-13 10:18:57

My DS2 and a little boy in the class above both have SN. They are expected to sit next to each other in assembly and work together when the 2 classes get together for group activities. They can't stand each other. My DS is frightened of the other child and the other child finds DS's behaviour frustrating. They both have hypermobility and sensory issues but DS hobbles around slowly and carefully while the other child is being assessed for ADHD and has a tendancy to do everything at high speed. It's frustrating for them and for me and for the other child's mum. But it's not my DS's fault or the other child's. I do blame the school and the LEA a bit though for not giving both children the support they need.

OP mostly YANBU but you are blaming the wrong people here. Children who are that disruptive that they are affecting the other childrens learning should be receiving proper support, although in most cases what children need and what they get are very different things.

jellybeans Wed 08-May-13 10:19:44

The OP reminds me of my SIL, who was outraged at her child PFB having to learn ALONGSIDE CHILDREN WITH SPECIAL NEEDS.'

That is terrible and I heard the same at our school sadly. But we are not talking about children with SN in general but children who are extremely aggressive and violent/disruptive. My child was put through hell, why is that right? If your DD was called a Crack Whore or your DS assaulted in the face with a pencil every day or bullied due to a disfigurement/disability DAILY how would you feel?

There are many DC with special needs in my DC class, my own DC were SN in the infants. But behavioural issues still needs to be kept on top of no matter what.

angelos02 Wed 08-May-13 10:20:26

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

jellybeans Wed 08-May-13 10:21:46

'jellybeans, what do the school say?'

they just say they are dealing with it but then it happens again.. They have been excluded several times but not permanently. Many of the parents, if not all, are fed up.

' If they cannot put support in place for this child and other children are subjected to violence, racism and sexual comments then I'd not consider it a fit place for my own child to be.'

Totally agree.

jellybeans Wed 08-May-13 10:22:00

Luckily mine are leaving in a few weeks.

PoppadomPreach Wed 08-May-13 10:24:52

I don't understand these threads. Why does it always have to be about SN (I.e. regardless of what point OP is trying to make, it is seen as somehow SN bashing, where in many cases, it is not)

Surely, sometimes, there are naughty kids? No SN, no particularly bad home circumstances, just ones where perhaps their parents have not taught them boundaries, not taught them to play nicely, share etc.

Sometimes kids are just naughty, and their parents will not back up any punishments the schools administer as they couldn't possibly tolerate anyone trying to control their precious little darling?

Surely it is exasperating, for the other pupils, the parents and the teachers to have to constantly devote their time to dealing with this? I think in these cases, the parents really, really have to be brought on board and start backing up any discipline handed out? It is absolutely crap that kids like this suck up precious teacher time away from all the other kids, including those with SN.

BeerTricksPotter Wed 08-May-13 10:26:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeerTricksPotter Wed 08-May-13 10:27:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

maddening Wed 08-May-13 10:29:36

Surely you shouldn't generalise as each case is so different - so what are the specific details if your dc's class issue? Do you have definite knowledge about the dc that are disrupting the class? Could it be down to the inability of the teacher to maintain order? What has been done so far?

PeneloPeePitstop Wed 08-May-13 10:30:29

Of COURSE, OP. You read their school files so you KNOW there's no SN involved, don't you?

Or maybe not. Stop being so pigging ignorant.

BeerTricksPotter Wed 08-May-13 10:31:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LIZS Wed 08-May-13 10:31:43

I think this thread has got sidetracked somewhat. In dd's case the culprits definitely do not have SEN, they are simply louder, attention seeking or perhaps "loveable rogues" some of whom can do well academically , musically for example when they choose to apply themselves, and it seems their classroom behaviour gets overlooked as a result.

Sparhawk Wed 08-May-13 10:33:14


Why does it always have to be about SN

Sometimes there might just be 'naughty' children.

Often, though, children who are disruptive, as people have previously pointed, have a SEN, that causes them to be disruptive and I'm unsure how anyone can say that they know for a fact a child doesn't have one, even an undiagnosed one, or how that they know they don't have issues in their home life.

As people have said, some children can't help that they disrupt the class, but, clearly, as angelos02 just pointed out, it's because we're too inclusive obsessed and those kids should just be gagged so that they don't upset all the precious NORMAL kids, huh. angry

Sparhawk Wed 08-May-13 10:33:29

Ooops angry

CheesyPoofs Wed 08-May-13 10:33:43

There's always been naughty disruptive kids in school. I remember the 'naughty boy' in my class at primary school in the early 80s.

School is about more than just academic learning - perhaps it teaches you tolerance, empathy and understanding too.

LegoAcupuncture Wed 08-May-13 10:33:44

grin at your self flaming Fanjo! You've made my day.

Each child has the right to work in a calm enviroment. However, due to funding or lack of it sometimes is not the case. YANBU to expect it.

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