to dislike my mum saying to people that ds2 winds ds1 up and knows how to spell push his buttons(28 Posts)
therefore it becomes his fault and shouldn't be surprised if ds1 wallops him hits hom kicks etc etc. She tells friends relatives mutual friends everyone really.
They are 5 and 7. When it happens I clamp down on ds1 and don't put up with it. My mum will say ds2 provoked it by looking at him wrong sticking his tongue out etc etc.
I'm the youngest. She used to say the same to me. "you mustn't tease him you know that happens when you tease him" about my brother when he'd walloped me etc
Seems like history is repeating itself
knows how to push his buttons! Always in a subtle way
so you are trying to parent in a better way than your parents did, you aren't the first...
I'd tell her, "explainations and excuses are two different things - while DS1 being wound up by DS2 is an explaination of his very bad behaviour, it's not an excuse - stop trying to teach him it's ok to hit someone if they annoy you. It's not, it's really crap to teach your kids that, he does that at school and he'd be in a lot of trouble. Or do you think it's only ok because the person he's lashing out at is his sibling?"
Well is he winding him up on purpose? Because if so then that is as wrong so you need to stop that aswell.
2 wrongs don't make a right!
It is absolutely the norm IME for a little brother to wind older sibling up until he gets hit and then come up smelling of roses and get all the sympathy and attention (I say this as an older sibling of 2 younger brothers!!)
So long as you are also teaching DS2 that he needs to be kind to his big brother then YANBU.
My mum once really upset me by saying "there's nothing wrong with him, he's just spoilt & naughty" about my DS1 who has ASD/Aspergers. She didn't mean it and didn't realise how upsetting her comment was but it still stays with me now, 15 years later! I think comments tend to hurt more than intended when they come from the very people we look to for support.
i think part of the problems is ds2 is still seen as very cute and quite young for his age too. He talks cute and people comment what a sweet little boy he is
when they do she comments on it ie he may look cute but he has his moments you should see how he winds up his brother and then his brother gets into trouble!
So what do you do to stop him winding his brother up?
well its always subtle things also things like refusing to play with him. O always tell ds1 I can't force him to play with him and he's not likely to if you behave like that either hitting etc.
So you let him get away with winding him up and always blame the eldest. I can see your mums point then!
I think you do need to tell ds1 off. BUT if ds2 is winding him up that needs to be acknowledged too.
My db (youngest) could wind the whole family up by pushing buttons, and then play innocent "I only asked" was his favourite comment after he'd said something that was very hurtful to someone. Dm would never call him on it, and so he continued. He still does it with my df when he goes home.
I have it the other way round. Dd2 will wind ds (younger) up. He does not have the ability to cross her with words because she can make rings round him. And she likes to have the last word-even after being told to stop.
They both get sent to their rooms when that happens, as dd2 has to take responsibility too. She is not an innocent victim as she likes to make out.
It can be incredibly frustrating if you are the sibling who gets wound up, then hits, then gets into trouble. You need to be dealing with this from both sides.
DS3 winds up DS1 no end, and is then surprised when DS1 eventually loses his temper and wallops him. When this happens, DS3 has a talking to about winding up his brothers, and DS1 gets a talking to about using violence to resolve a dispute. In my view the winding up is just as nasty as the hitting - DS3 knows what he is doing, he does it on purpose in order to make DS1 lose his temper. DS1 is not old enough to hang on to his temper always, he is frustrated and angry, and it is a slow process learning to deal with a younger brother who is irritating him on purpose.
but if ds2 won't play with him I can't force him too play. That's when he will hit him
So what do you do to reprimand ds2 for being a wind up merchant?
You should be encouraging him to play nicely IMO. At the moment it seems like DS2 always gets his own way whilst DS1 gets taunted by his brother eventually retaliates and gets in trouble.
Surely you can see how thats not really fair?
When this happens with my dc they both get told off - one for winding up the other and the other for responding to the button pushing.
They are both at fault for different things.
but if ds2 won't play with him I can't force him too play - no but you can guide them.
You do need to be careful not to overcompensate for your parents' favourtism of an older child by going too far the other way with your own and letting the youngest to get away with behaviour you shouldn't.
However, if DS2 doesn't want to play with DS1, then why should he? As long as he's not doing anything wrong other than wanting to play on his own, why should DS1 be able to insist on DS2 playing a particular way because he's the eldest?
Step in and tell DS2 off for being horrible to his brother when he's doing something wrong, but if he's just refusing to do what DS1 wants, then he shouldn't be punished for it.
"do as you are told or be hit" isn't a nice thing to teach a small child. "it's ok to hit people if they don't do what you want" is also not good. Can you sit DS1 down and explain he can't force his brother to play with him if he doesn't want too? that's not naughty, but hitting to get your own way is.
Sounds like you and your mum have taken sides - when in reality both your DSs are at fault. The eldest shouldn't hit and the youngest shouldn't wind him up. They are getting to be old enough to negotiate their own relationship without needing an adult intermediary all the time, so I'd be concentrating on giving DS1 some new, non-violent tools for coping with his brother and you should ignore DS2 whining as much as possible.
if they are winding up and teasing then all three or whoever is showing the behaviour gets told off. if ds is winsind ss up and being mean so ss does something nasty they are both in trouble and vice versa. yes you cannot hit or take toys off someone but if they are being mean then they will not just walk away from it with no consequences.
I get is (and got this) from my mum too. Infact I wondered if I'd posted in my sleep.
It annoys the hell out of me because
A) ds1 should have some self control
B). Ds2 isn't the sly winderupper (if such a word exists)
Ds1 should be capable of explaining calmly what the matter is not resorting to violence. Ds2 is not sly (neither I might add am I which was the implication 30 years ago)
They both get told off if ds2 has acctually been on the wind, nut ds1 more because he hit and that is unacceptable. Usually however it is because ds2 has been insisting on good manners and fair turns and also not always doing as his brother tells him. Which frankly seems fair enough to me.
Gets my goat does this one. DM is lovely and fantastic usually but this winds me up a treat. I correct her every time and we have less of it these days.
With respect to one of them wanting to play and the other not - like you, I wouldn't force either to play. But I would be having a word in ds1's ear about occasionally saying no to ds2, when he wants to play.
It seems to me that it would be good for ds2 to feel that mild rejection, or to appreciate that sometimes ds1 wants to do stuff by himself, too.
The other thing you could do, of course, when ds1 wants to play with ds2 and he says no, is to play with ds1 or interact with him in some way. Maybe baking, craft kit, making dinosaurs etc.
YANBU - she is stirring trouble between them.
The point here is not actually what the OP does to resolve sibling rucks (they all have them!)
The point is that she is being divisive towards the two brothers because she gets a kick out of stirring. This is pathetic behaviour from an adult who should know better.
With siblings, to a certain extent you have to let them get on with it - squables are normal. Sibling rucks are a chance for people to learn how to cope with relationships as they grow up. If you interfere, you run the risk of appearing to take sides and they will NOT be friends when older.
It depends on how he's not wanting to play with his brother.
If it's just big brother wants to play football and little brother wants to stay in and play lego. That's reasonable.
But if big brother wants to play football and little brother has the best football and is kicking it against the wall and saying "I don't have to play with you" then there does come a point that is being mean.
Dd2 does the "not playing" as a wind up. I have seen it. She'll suggest to ds that they'll play something, and then decide she's not playing any more after 2 minutes, just as ds has started getting excited about it. Or say she's not playing because he won't do everything her way. Or she's not wanting to play with him, but it is vitally important she holds a piece of equipment he needs because she's just "examining it carefully..." Or he'll say "will you play X with me" and she'll say no, she wants to be by herself-but then will get to X first and be playing on it when he comes up.
She can play beautifully with him too, so it's not all the time, but just giving you some examples how "not palying with you" can be very much pushing buttons.
BTW - I've seen a lot of grandparents who seem to allocate "roles" to DGC, "the good one" "the naughty one" "the butter wouldn't melt windupper" "the clever one" etc. In my experience, they tend not to be as good as parents as seeing past this and judging what they are actually seeing, because they don't see their DGC day in, day out.
My Grandmother did this with my cousins, I think she actually took it personally when the younger "lazy, naughty, always up to something" cousin got much better grades at GCSE and then A level than the older "good, hard working, very bright" cousin. She was sure that younger cousin "got very lucky" and even said on GCSE day that it'd been in the paper they exams were getting easier this year, so he might not have got those grades if he'd done them the same year as his brother. (she was a cow when proved wrong about anything). the very idea that she might not have got her assessment of him (that she made when he was about 2) right wasn't acceptable.
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